The Online Citizen

MOE replies to questions about AWARE’s CSE programme

April 28
17:14 2009

From the Ministry of Education’s website:

Reply to Recent Comments and Claims About AWARE’s Sexuality Education Programme in Schools

We refer to recent claims and comments about AWARE’s sexuality education programme in schools.

Sexuality education conducted in MOE schools is premised on the importance of the family and respect for the values and beliefs of the different ethnic and religious communities on sexuality issues. The aim is to help students make responsible values-based choices on matters involving sexuality.

Core programmes are delivered by teachers but schools do collaborate with other agencies in delivering additional modules. However, in doing so, schools must ensure that any programmes run by external agencies are secular and sensitive to the multi-religious make-up of our society. Parents can choose to opt their children out of these programmes.

Last year, 11 secondary schools engaged AWARE to run workshops for their students. The number of students involved in each school ranged from about 20 to 100, and each workshop lasted 3 hours. The objectives of these workshops were to provide students with accurate information on Sexually Transmitted Infections (STIs)/HIV, to help students understand the consequences of premarital sexual activity, and to equip students with skills such as decision-making and resisting negative peer pressure.

AWARE also conducted assembly talks, typically of 45-minute duration, for students in a few secondary schools. Some of the areas covered in the talks included body image, self-esteem, eating disorders, teenage pregnancies, sexual harassment and the role of women in today’s context.

The schools that engaged AWARE found that the content and messages of the sessions conducted were appropriate for their students and adhered to guidelines to respect the values of different religious groups. The schools did not receive any negative feedback from students or parents who attended the workshops and talks.

In particular, MOE has also not received any complaint from parents or Dr Thio Su Mien, who was reported to have made specific claims about sexuality education in our schools. MOE has contacted Dr Thio Su Mien to seek clarifications and facts to substantiate her claims.

If parents and members of the public know of specific instances where guidelines have not been adhered to, they should report them directly to MOE to investigate. MOE recognises that sexuality education is sensitive. In conducting these programmes, the views of parents will be respected and values taught should not deviate from the social norms accepted by mainstream society in Singapore.

—–

Read also: TOC Facebook: Reader sends email to ministers asking for action to be taken against TOC for Aware coverage.

 
  • wei chun

    Thank you Ministry of Education for the clarification. We hope you hold Dr Thio responsible for her claims.

  • la nausée

    It seems that the Government has sort of gotten involved, but only because MOE was implicated in the new Exco’s slanderous allegations.

    I like this line the best: “In particular, MOE has also not received any complaint from parents or Dr Thio Su Mien, who was reported to have made specific claims about sexuality education in our schools.” If the new Exco indeed were acting in the capacity of concerned parents (as they claimed to be), why did they not lodge even a single complaint? I imagine a simple call or e-mail would have been far more expedient than orchestrating a takeover… not least for a self-professed ‘well-connected’ person like Dr Thio.

  • Divide & Conquer

    The scholars are good in opportunistic rebuttals within a defensive framework.

  • ErniesUrn

    Dr Thio: “Hey, parents, you better know what’s happening, you better know what’s happening…I talked to parents, I said, you better do something about this, otherwise your daughter will come back and say, “Mum, I want to marry my girlfriend” or your son will say, “Dad, I want to marry my boyfriend.”

    Wow more worried about homosexuality & a whole generation of lesbians than a more serious social problem …unwanted pregnancy (thanks to straight people)… some people just put too much energy in advocating a cause that only protects their own interest.

    She just better pray hard that her grand children are all straight and practice safe sex, if not, she will ask them to join another group.

    Narrow minded people.

  • A Tan

    Guess this means anal sex is normal.

    So female teachers take note when yr male partners want it. MOE approved leh ))))

  • Peiyu

    I saw this and was all “Oh wow, count down to the EGM!”

    Totally don’t blame MOE’s statement because the original accusations from the new ExCo indirectly indicate complacency within the ministry in not monitoring these programmes properly. That was not a smart move, involving the ministry because BIG BROTHER IS LURKING.

    ** By the way, AWARE EGM’s venue is changed to hall 2 of Singapore Expo! Obvious explosion of membership and kaypoh people.

  • Bleah

    Now the ‘feminist mentor’ Thio and her ilk have been exposed for the liars that they are.

  • kopi

    A government agency also measure how much of the fallout will fall on their side. You can see the statement had caution..

    school can elected their own 3rd party agency … so the blame is pointed to the school for electing rthe agency

    We MOE will find out more etc etc..

  • LCS

    Dr Thio is a trained lawyer; and a highly prominent one at that. I find it hard to beleive that she would make a basic blunder as not checking his facts.

  • http://yahoo Peace

    There is an official version and a actual version. What the ministry and the school see and what is actually taught may be different. They may be taught by gays or lesbians to promote that life style is ok and with life experience sharing and testimonies.. The moe and the schools should plant a mole as whistle blower when the lesson is underway. Don’t be complacent. Your children may be initiated into this life style already…
    If there is no fire there is no smoke.

  • observer

    I predict the next set of leaked emails from Thio or COOS would go something like:

    “Parents, please start writing to MOE to complain about the old AWARE’s program! Any education about the existence of condoms, contraception, family planning methods, and non-judgmental views of sexuality will make our nation cross God’s line again!”

  • observer

    Peace,

    YES, I agree with you.

    We should totally devote precious manpower, public resources, and taxpayers’ money to “plant moles” in sexuality lessons. This is because non-judgmental views about sexualities is one of the greatest threats to the stability, unity and integrity of our nation, in a time of financial woes, swine flu and religious extremism.

    We can work out the operational details later, like how these “moles” are going to assimilate into a class of 14 year old schoolgirls without sticking out like a sore thumb.

  • Loyola

    Peace,

    “They may be taught by gays or lesbians to promote that life style is ok and with life experience sharing and testimonies” –> This does not sound like promotion, but rather teaching acceptance and tolerance through sharing sessions by people who may be GLBT and allow for empathy for their experiences.

    Hence, are you then saying that it is okay to teach discrimination just because your own values tell you so?

    Please clarify. Thanks.

  • wei chun

    Totally agree with PEACE (10).

    We should plant moles so that our children don’t get initiated into a facist Christian sect whilst taking sex education classes. Your children may be going to COOS without you knowing! Horrors!

  • Modernist

    To Peace, rejoice for you have a choice. I quote:

    “Parents can choose to opt their children out of these programmes.”

    If you are so suspicious about the CSE program despite MOE’s clarification, then pull yr children out, out of an abundance of caution and teach yr own children about the bird and the bees and you can then monitor the indoctrination that yr children receive.

  • tew ah seow

    this thio should be punished by spreading false lies. But I don’t know under which law should she be punished ?

  • mirax

    There is an official version and a actual version. What the ministry and the school see and what is actually taught may be different. They may be taught by gays or lesbians to promote that life style is ok and with life experience sharing and testimonies.. The moe and the schools should plant a mole as whistle blower when the lesson is underway. Don’t be complacent. Your children may be initiated into this life style already…
    If there is no fire there is no smoke.

    Your are such a deluded person, PIECE. First the allegation on threads elsewhere that gays were indulging in wild public sex (only in your fevered mind) and now accusing others of lying and subterfuge.

    You and your THIO-mentor can pick up on the direct challenge issued by the MOE – if you reckon you have even an ounce of credibility left- and provice specific, concrete evidence instead of slandering all the good people involved in looking after our kids both in the schools and in AWARE.

    “There is no smoke without any fire” is one of the stupidest and most mean-spirited ways of thinking and relating to others.

  • Danny

    Erm… MOE’s reply is like no reply leh. Typically government agency – school and parents don’t complain means it’s okay lah. Mas Selemat don’t run away means our police force is No.1 hor… that is, until Mas Selemat run away.

    I wonder MOE did not say.. “hey, we looked at the materials and did not find anything wrong” instead of “hey, nobody complain hor, so don’t blame us”.

    MOE is digging it’s grave if someone pulls out CSE and ask them to clarify if they agree or disagree with each line. But I think they’ll say “it’s netural lah, none of our business cause it s between school and private organization”

    MOE has not (and I think dare not) say whether they approve or not.

  • Danny

    “schools must ensure that any programmes run by external agencies are secular and sensitive to the multi-religious make-up of our society. Parents can choose to opt their children out of these programmes.”

    What the fish is MOE for? Sit back, collect (and spend) tax payer money and have the school do everything and take responsibility for everything.

    When things go wrong, MOE will ask if the minister should resign and they say “hey, we expect the school to follow the direction.. if they don’t it’s not my fault; and then fire the principles”

  • mr secularist

    josie’s email to her members HAHAHAH. wad a joke. my sis showed me.

    “Dear Valued Members

    Since my election as President on 14th April 2009, I have received intense media attention. A group of AWARE members has gone public with various allegations and have called for an EGM for the specific purpose of removing me and my team. We have only been in office for less than 20 days.
    I am a woman seeking to serve other women in Singapore. Like you, I have struggles. I do not have all easy answers to the many hard questions that life throws up. No one does.
    However, we should not be passive where we can band together to work for positive change. There are many things worth protecting and fighting for.
    We want to make a positive difference to your lives and to our society. A good place to start is to help the many distressed women affected by the current economic crisis.
    We are dedicated towards continuing our role as an NGO to ensure the effective implementation of CEDAW standards. We want to see abstract standards translated into meaningful policies which directly affect our lives and well-being. We will constructively engage with all interested governmental and non-governmental agencies, to progressively bring this goal to pass.
    CEDAW as a women’s rights treaty belongs to all women. We are resolved to enhance widespread awareness of CEDAW standards among Singapore men and women and to provide an open forum to discuss how to better realise these standards.
    We wish to honour and celebrate the achievements of first generation Singapore women and to emulate their spirit of perseverance and to learn from their experience and vision. In so doing, we connect the present to the past, as we work together for our better future.
    I hope to see you at the upcoming EGM where we will present preliminary details of our programme and projects. My team and I seek your active support and participation in implementing these to serve our community.
    AWARE belongs to you.
    Warmest wishes
    Josie Lau

  • Peiyu

    I hardly think this is punishable by law? Anyway, if this gets on national newspaper (and I doubt it won’t!), her personal and new Ex-Co integrity and agenda would be further doubted sufficiently. Especially when no complaints have been forthcoming from teachers who always were in attendence.

    I hope there are no really blind sheep in the upcoming EGM supporting either side of the camp. We all are going in with our bias from what we have read, but my friend reminded me that AWARE had not been prominent in the past few years, a problem the new ExCo might be able to address. It would only be all too wise to listen to what the new ExCo has to say and how they plan to make the association more relevant in our society.

    I must say though, one word about how lesbianism is “promoted” in that EGM and I’ll lose all hope that the new ExCo is moving in the right direction. They need to tell us what they want to do instead of harping on what the old AWARE allegedly did not do. They would also need to explain if their lack of diversity (in terms of race, religion and socioeconomic backgrounds) would affect their own future judgment. And not paint a hurt look on their faces and demand an answer as to why their personal religion is being attacked.

    The old guard in their press conference were frank in saying that it is inevitable personal beliefs are influential. However, the open discussions among people of varying backgrounds, and therefore different yet overlapping beliefs, would generate the most suitable resolution in every manner possible without ignoring established facts.

    I like that.

  • Ah Lian

    great stuff! let’s have no discriminations at all!

    all humans should be equal – same rights, same salary, one voice, one social class one people. Let’s build a free, atheist society. Social norms will be decided by committees of men and women. To hell with social hierachies, mores and values. Let’s build a Utopia.

    Many closet Communists in this forum.

  • la nausée

    @Peace (#10), I’m 90% sure that ‘moles’ were planted at the AWARE talks. After all, the talks and workshops took place on school premises, and within extra-curricular (if not curricular) hours.

    These ‘moles’ are also called “teachers”.

  • Imustbestupid

    Maybe the sedition act?

    Seditious tendency.

    3. —(1) A seditious tendency is a tendency —

    (a) to bring into hatred or contempt or to excite disaffection against the Government;
    (b) to excite the citizens of Singapore or the residents in Singapore to attempt to procure in Singapore, the alteration, otherwise than by lawful means, of any matter as by law established;
    (c) to bring into hatred or contempt or to excite disaffection against the administration of justice in Singapore;
    (d) to raise discontent or disaffection amongst the citizens of Singapore or the residents in Singapore;
    (e) to promote feelings of ill-will and hostility between different races or classes of the population of Singapore.

  • observ

    MOE seems to be treading very carefully (don’t think anyone expected MOE to say, oh we knew all about it, and was ok with us). 3 major points:

    1) “The schools that engaged AWARE found that the content and messages of the sessions conducted were appropriate for their students and adhered to guidelines … ”
    2) “The schools did not receive any negative feedback from students or parents who attended the workshops and talks.”
    3) “MOE has contacted Dr Thio Su Mien to seek clarifications and facts to substantiate her claims.”

    Now it all boils down to point (3).
    Let’s see if TSM is able to substantiate her claims. Being a senior lawyer, and the former dean of law faculty, I won’t be surprised if she’s able to come up with a rather good presentation.

  • la nausée

    @observ (#17), she had better. Otherwise, as a lawyer, she would know that her statements (and those of some of the Exco) would probably amount to defamation, as would remarks like those from A Tan (#5).

  • Modernist

    We await with bated breath and on tenterhooks. Her chance to shine in the spotlight. She must now be busy contacting all the supposed concerned parents. And then, she must also point to exact chapter and verse in the Aware CSE program. ANything less than that and there goes her reputation.

  • truth

    Now you know what it is like to be taken to task.

  • http://yahoo Peace

    Strange that the spotlight is on Thio and not on the gays and lesbians.Smokescreen tactics, eh?
    Don’t play play, you parents the promoters are going around schools to conduct live demo on the use of condom, anal and oral sex for safe sex and to cut down unwanted pregnancy among teens.. No better way than to start them young.
    The actors and promotors are gays and lesbains from the old school. School children below the age of 18 cannot volunteer as models and any younger requires parental consent.
    Parents, ask your kids before it is too late., before your kids posing nude in blogs and another Edison chen

  • JJ

    For all those people who think that Anal sex is adnormal. U willing need to go for sex education. When i was in AU, there is a program (free to air channel) called Sex life. It is a show to educate ppl on how to enjoy and hv sex because face it, we really kn nuts unless u count missionary as the only position u kn in ur entire pathetic life. In one of the episode, it shows a girl using a dido on a guy and into his anal. The documentary then seek to explain this is coz guy’s g-spot unlike women is found in the anal area. Yes. Sex is not abt recreation only. And we need more of such program here in SG so that everyone can enjoy sex and hv more babies. And not go on a witch hunt to slay LGBT. FYI. The program is done very educationally and not porn at all. Nothing arousing. Informative.

  • mirax

    You are one sick baby, PIECE. Don’t you ever think about anything other than sex, sex and more sex?

  • kt

    MOE – no complaints does not mean it is ok and everything is fine. MOE has a responsibility along with the schools to ensure what is taught are “sensitive to the multi-religious make up of our society”

  • Alonso_star

    What the heck man? Didn’t make any sense at all..

  • Yamasam

    When Dr Thio made the allegations at the news conference last Thurs, the implication is that there is a dereliction of duty on the part of MOE and/or the principals of the schools concerned. It is inevitable that the MOE has to response or the public will assume what Dr Thio alleged is true.

    Now that MOE has seeked clarifications from Dr Thio, it is equally important that MOE must reveal her response publicly.

    If Dr Thio is able to substantiate her allegations, then MOE must investigate those evidence further to get to the bottom of this sensitive matter. Disciplinary action must be taken against those involved.

    On the hand, if she is not able to substantiate her allegations, then MOE must censure her for making such allegation creating unnecessary anxiety for parents of those students involved and damaging the reputation of AWARE and the CSE teachers.

  • Modernist

    Quote:

    28) Peace on April 28th, 2009 10.05 pm
    Strange that the spotlight is on Thio and not on the gays and lesbians.Smokescreen tactics, eh?
    Don’t play play, you parents the promoters are going around schools to conduct live demo on the use of condom, anal and oral sex for safe sex and to cut down unwanted pregnancy among teens.. No better way than to start them young.
    The actors and promotors are gays and lesbains from the old school. School children below the age of 18 cannot volunteer as models and any younger requires parental consent.
    Parents, ask your kids before it is too late., before your kids posing nude in blogs and another Edison chen

    How does the above even dignify debate or response? Sigh. Some people seem to have completely lost the plot, or the ability to objectively reason.

  • David

    To Observ 24#

    Don’t bother to wait for Thio Su Mien’s reply to MOE or in public. We have had enough of their lies coupled with Josies & gang’s twisted and turned statements in the last few weeks of the tenure. Besides, the old guard said Thio Su Mien is a “closeted feminist” and nobody knows she is a founder’s friends as claimed Thus I presumed this Thio is a willy old fox who sneaked around and waited for opportunity to strike at all cost without good reasoning but crooked arguments to get its prey. Period!

  • mirax

    Quite a lot of the pro-COOS frothers are trolls Modernist. Dont deserve a proper response, they have only pest value and all we can do is slap down some of the more persistent ones.

  • Danny

    Ah Thio is a senior lawyer. I’m pretty sure she is prepared for it and I won’t be surprise they are digging through AWARE old notes and emails for traces of proof now.

    Maybe that’s why the facility manager locked them out of account and got fired.

  • inferno

    From what I’ve read on the responses to the various TOC articles these few days, I have to say that my fellow contributor Peace has been exceedingly bellicose (and that’s being polite; the first word that came to my mind was “ret*****”), for lack of a more refined word. Not only are his/her posts entirely inflammatory in language, they are also entirely irrelevant in substance to the topic of discussion. One need not look any further than post #28 on this page, to fulfill one’s daily (or weekly, even) quota of delirious bull****.

    Dictionary.com defines “yahoo” as:
    “an uncultivated or boorish person; lout; philistine; yokel, or
    a coarse or brutish person.”
    What irony that he/she fills that into the “Website or blog” box in every post.
    ~ ~ ~
    Mr personal take on this entire issue is that we should adopt a vigilant, “wait-and-see” approach. Since we are (supposed to be) civilised participants in civic society, we have to give the new Exco the benefit of doubt, in that they will stay true to the objectives and principles of AWARE. While most of us foresee that the odds of this happening are practically microscopic, still we must exercise control and stay the sword. But let there be no doubt in anyone’s mind that the hand holding the sword above is just itching to let gravity run its course.

    I do find it deliciously ironic that the new Exco is bemoaning that the Old Guard is attempting to mobilise large numbers of supporters at the EOGM to oust them, yet I wonder who could possibly have inspired them to use such stormtrooper tactics in the first place?

    Also, I honestly do not find anything wrong with MOE’s response. Darth Thio has stuck her neck very far out this time round, and I’m sure they’re already trying their civil best not to bring the knife down to the chopping board… for now.

  • Buddhist

    “Don’t play play, you parents the promoters are going around schools to conduct live demo on the use of condom, anal and oral sex for safe sex and to cut down unwanted pregnancy among teens.”

    I’m flabbergasted.

    On another note, has anal sex been decriminalised?

  • Modernist

    mirax: You mean they speak in tongues?

  • tiredman

    Peace,
    ehh… this is not a place for you to post such a disgusting comment(s).

  • mirax

    If speaking in tongues means a babble of meaningless sounds, signifying much fury and emotional distress but little substance, then , yes.

  • la nausée

    @Buddhist, with the repeal of the old section 377 (“carnal intercourse against the order of nature”) of the Penal Code, both anal sex and oral sex have been decriminalized, if heterosexual in nature. Conversely, “gross indecency” between males (not limited to anal sex and oral sex) remains criminalized under 377A.

  • tc

    Does anyone know if Thio Su Mien is gunning for another term as NMP? One would hope not, after this fiasco, and her “natural” ability to polarise society, not to mention her increasingly religious stance towards issues, totally inappropriate for a member of parliament in a secular country. For the sake of the country, I would hope she NEVER gets any standing within Parliament, whether as nominated or elected member.

  • http://yahoo Peace

    Anti coos mirax, you froth at the mouth after an oral. How to respond? Your lesbian values is no better than the gay values and slapping it down will like slapping modernist another fellow activist. Instead of frothing and spewing vulgarities attend the eogm and witness the antics of the old guards.

  • Wei Thiong

    Admin,

    Can you pls block Peace? He/she is not making much sense.
    Thanks.

  • http://www.ariean.blogspot.com jaded.sg

    I subscribe to the belief that for every one lie you find out about… There is like ten you didn’t… the covert nature of the coup and the many inconsistencies springing up daily is simply unbecoming of leadership of such an organisation especially since there is strong behind-the-scenes puppeteering from a closet feminist with a LKY complex who deems AWARE unworthy of her presence on the EXCO.

    The cavalier attitude in the many dismissals, a very dramatic lock change and a press conference where they asked more questions then answered simply show that these people have a hidden agenda and since they have not deemed it necessary to let it be known, speculation has gone amok.

    At the very bottom line, even before ANYONE comes to the door to get some help from AWARE, the new guard seems to be putting up notice that LBGT will be exempt from any help whatsoever. What happened to helping “all”?

    About the sexual education angle, I find it stupid to think that a hour long workshop where one of the many points covered include setting the tone that LBGT tendencies and actions are “neutral” will suddenly PUSH young impressionable minds into invoking LBGT-ism. I mean, if any parent comes up and blames this program for turning their kids into a LBGT, he/she is going to turn into a laughing stock. Here is someone who is SO clueless about their kids actions and behaviour when they spend their entire childhood at home and completely miss the signs that the kids are exhibiting LBGT tendencies. Yes I am saying it, if your child turns LBGT cos AWARE says it’s neutral to be it, then its your fault… You should have seen it coming and handled it. Not blame the school sheesh… (Disclaimer: am not saying any LBGT come from bad parents, just that they are painting themselves as bad parents for blaming it on a sexual ed workshop). Anyway, if you feel so strongly about it, there is an option to not send your kids for the workshop?

    So instead of educating parents on the program and highlighting the exclusion form, “Mentor” took over AWARE and change sex ed to say LBGT = BAD? Old-AWARE should be applauded for having trust in our intelligence to make the right decisions, the new guard on the other hand seems to want to rather insult our intelligence it and use its position to spoonfeed some prejudged and slanted information.

    Someone should put Josie in the same situation as Constance was put in (http://www.yawningbread.org/arch_2009/yax-1010.htm) , where she faced a hostile group of lesbian and bi women who felt that AWARE had virtually ignored that group of women and see how she fares or rather flounders.

    Oh wait, actually I can imagine it, she will start with something like “It’s a very complex and controversial situation we are in now…” then pass the mike to Maureen…

    ROFL

  • diversity supporter

    Please don’t ban Peace from this discussion.

    It’s not just about freedom of speech. I also think it’s important for us to be reminded of the ignorance, immaturity and irrationality shown by supporters speaking up for the new executive committee even as the rest of us are looking hard into our hearts to understand this situation objectively and fairly.

    Peace, if you’re reading this, I do admire your efforts in defending the indefensible. Please continue to speak up for what you believe.

  • http://tigertang.multiply.com Tang Li

    According to a lawyer friend of mine, it seems that Thio Su Mien is very clever but somehow when it comes to the gay issue she goes all insane. Which is a shame because if such a clever woman can end up like that, what does it say about the rest of us “Ignorant People.”

    Seriously, if you were as clever as Dr Thio, would you make an accusation that would involve the government? I found it hard to think that the MOE would not have done something in one school let alone 30 if the programs being taught had something wrong with them. Not bright, especially when it comes from someone as prominent as Dr Thio.

    I mean what is it about the Thio’s? I remember getting very irritated with the daughter because she was speaking lots of nonsense about morals – her take seemed to be if you repel 377A you will become gay. How do you get a law degree let alone a PhD with such argument? It beats me?

    Well, now you have the mother doing something as stupid as getting the government involved by making an allegation that effectively made the MOE look incompetent. What was she thinking?

  • Lee Wei

    AWARE does not need christian door guards to protect the line which their God drew. This is extremely creepy and i can’t imagine how they will attempt to turn AWARE into a christian nation.

    A leader/members of AWARE should be:

    Impartial – not favouring a particular group or individual just because they are from the same religion organisation or similar background.

    Sincere – no deceit or hidden agenda upon agreeing to take up any responsibilities.

    Undiscriminating, non-judgmental – Regardless of background, beliefs, values, sexual preferences and religion, all should be treated with fairness and unbiasedness, including the homosexuals, liars, abusers, etc

    Passionate – passionate in helping desperate, helpless and lost women/people, instead of being passionate about promoting their strong beliefs and religion.

    Truthful – true to their words in all circumstances, elections, voting systems, voting members or their own words would be held against the said facts.

    Empathetic, sympathetic – sensitive and understanding towards any problems faced by women from all walks of life, religion, sexual preferences.

    Objective – Putting their own interests below others and aim to achieve the said objectives of serving and helping women who needs a shoulder to cry on and not being objective towards their goal of imposing christianity on non-believers.

    But even before the new exco started their duties officially, they have already displayed the exact opposite of what a real leader of AWARE should be.

    For this, the new exco and their feminist leader should be thrown out of AWARE as they do not have what it takes to be real LEADER at all.

  • mice is nice

    Dr Thio was acting like CSJ? lol.

    ah, now we all know where her “buttons” are (LBGT issues)? o.O

    i think Dr Thio need to keep her paranoia in check, just like people with an irrational fear of darkness, clowns, etc. some fears do have overwhelming influence, that some cannot control.

    a visit to IMH maybe? -.-”

    well educated not = clever, rich not always = well educated

    *no one’s perfect.

  • Onwards

    Haha, the current exco will have alot to refute the allegations made against the old guard and the ex-president, Constance. TO think they can be as stupid as to make senseless and groundless claims that constance has a gay brother who wants to turn AWARE into a gay platform when this could be easily verified by a birth cert or DNA. A classic epic and comical group of fundamentalist christians. The real intentions of these fundamentalist christians will surface soon this saturday and will be totally transparent clear to the public and the government of what exactly they are up to.

  • Onwards

    Mice is nice, you gotta see this:

    Taken from wikipedia:

    ” Dr Thio Su Mien came to the attention of the Singaporean public in 2003 when she sent a letter to the local daily newspaper The Straits Times stating her strong disagreement with homosexuality.[18] The letter, signed by eight persons, was in response to a speech by the then Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong in which he mentioned that the Civil Service would not discriminate against employing homosexual individuals. On 9 February 2006, Dr Thio Su Mien also wrote another letter to The Straits Times which, amongst other things, stated her belief that the American Psychiatric Association had ceased to regard homosexuality as a mental disorder due to “pressure tactics from homosexual activists — including riots and disruptions of APA meetings”.

    Yes, dr thio’s explode button is the LBGT issues. Once pressed, you’re gone…baby gone.

    An intelligent and gifted person often have difficulties keeping her emotions in check, especially issues that provoke her religious beliefs, such as LBGT.

  • Retrenched Fluffer

    Just a heads up:

    AWARE Constitution states that “At least one quarter of the total membership of the society or 25 members, whichever is the lesser, present at a general meeting shall form a quorum.”

    In plain English:

    The side that packs Singapore Expo Hall 2 to capacity first on Saturday May 2nd may be able to declare the quorum fulfilled and lock out the rest.

  • A Tan

    GreensLemonsBananasTomatoes

    Better keep yr voices down, and play in yr sand pits ’cause

    http://www.penguin.co.uk/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,9780713999020,00.html

    COOS and buddies, the future is yrs. So be nice to the fruit and veggie boys, gals and others in between. Remember yr god loves the kids.

  • Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang)

    Fundies are dangerous not because they are stupid but because they are more inclined to act on it.

  • mice is nice

    MOE effectively blew the smokescreen away!

    Thio & friends can book a place in IMH & play out their anti-LBGT fantasy. lol!

    ^.^

  • JL

    #43 Wei Thiong,

    i am not admin, just a regular reader, but i really think it’s ok to let him continue. peace demo the kind of supporter the new exco has. what we need to block is the new exco from hijacking AWARE. it is precisely contributions like peace that i realize i will have to join AWARE, juzt to kick josie and her team out.

    i forwarded this links to friends and most think contributors like peace are an eye opener to the saga. so, peace, please continue your work on the gay/lesbian issue over and over again, without once touching on the characters and methods of the new team

    lastly, think zefly was right from the very beginning, lots of hug to you #28 Peace.

  • C H LIM

    tc (#42):
    The NMP is not Thio Su Mien, but her daughter Thio Li Ann who is a chip off the old block. I agree that people like her should never be in Parliament.

    I wonder if the old guard will bother to pursue their legal rights. But I hope the government will take appropriate action against those who distort truths, make unsubstantiated allegations, and spread hatred and intolerance with the objective of advancing their own fanatical brand of religion.

  • dukebluedevil

    thio should know that if you say something that cast a bad light on the government, the government will not take it lightly. she’s read probably countless cases on that.

    one of LKY’s main concerns during the time of independence was to ensure racial and religious harmony, going by how this conflict has thrown religion into the picture, I would think he would be looking at it very very very very closely.

  • jimdog

    “peace demo the kind of supporter the new exco has. what we need to block is the new exco from hijacking AWARE. it is precisely contributions like peace that i realize i will have to join AWARE, juzt to kick josie and her team out.”

    Agreed. Though, Peace, I must say that your English has improved dramatically since your first postings. Fewer grammatical errors now.

    I guess practice really makes perfect!

  • Arthur

    #46 Tang Li – you are not too bright yourself. Your post demeans ‘law’ for what it stands for and enshrines. It has an almost total disregard for the efforts surrounding the 377A discourse. I would be more humble about my own ignorance if I were you.

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  • mice is nice

    re post 50) Onwards on April 29th, 2009 3.12 am

    thanks for the info! ^.^

  • T

    /// 42) tc on April 29th, 2009 12.07 am
    Does anyone know if Thio Su Mien is gunning for another term as NMP? ///

    tc, Thio Su Mien was never an NMP. Her daughter Thio Li Ana was. Don’t think she dares to stand for another term.

  • Ah Teck

    No complaints from parents to MOE does equal silence is consent. There are parents who are iliterate, many are busy working out there and maybe ignorant because they trust that their children are in good hands. How many parents can confidently say that they know every contents that were taught by the school to their children?.
    The statement from MOE only confirmed that CSE programme were appropriate and adhered to MOE guidelines. But as parents we are more concern whether the programme condone homosexual lifestyle, which was never express in the statement.

  • http://yahoo Peace

    58) jimdog on April 29th, 2009 10.52 am ,
    thanks for the compliment. I must admit that my enrish was horrendous and it still is if not for the tolerance of the theonlinecitizen. I know my postings, and many, didn’t go down well and were sticking out on many of you. Mirax, Zefly, tj were irritated and called me by many imaginable flattery names. But I am not here to please. I am here to warn you guys of the dangers that are not apparent in the old aware’ program for the schools. The CSE might be a trojan to sneak in undesirable people and values which our conservative society abhors. I may not have evidence but the fact the subject of homosexaulity is considered nuetral is inherently dangerous and it leaves the devils(there are many here) the opportunities to distort and to twist. The right way to deal with the subject is to give it in perspective, head on and no eh, mmm.
    I will continue to post irritating comments until the eogm.

  • sllim

    Anyone else find these disconcerting?

    “…MOE recognises that sexuality education is sensitive. In conducting these programmes, the views of parents will be respected and values taught should not deviate from the social norms accepted by mainstream society in Singapore.”

    “Reader sends email to ministers asking for action to be taken against TOC for Aware coverage.”

  • HT

    Seems like the fundies (acting on instructions from that thing looking like a cross between Dolores Umbridge and Darth) will be swamping the MOE from today onwards with complaints about the CSE. Interesting. They are taking on the State now. These fundies are going for broke.

  • T

    Sorry, typo above – should be Thio Li Ann. What was I thinking? Anal…?

  • T

    THIOLOGY and THEOLOGY – what a potent and portentous mix.

  • Antibitchfight

    Accusing the government of promoting and educating the neutrality of homosexuality is very serious and the person who said that must have wasted her years of reading law and working as one. Maybe she could get away from accusing a mere citizen but not LKY or LHL. Without the era of the Great Lee, i doubt there will be places and platforms for people like Thio Su Mien who think she could blast her displease and disgust on her hatred for the homosexuals openly and publicly. People like the new exco and thio are female wastrels who upsets the balance of having a multi-racial and multi-religion society and they should be ashamed of themselves for ruining the main objectives of the Singapore Government, so that they could achieve their own selfish objectives to enforce christianity on everybody. Now MOE is in, i wonder what those fundamentalists got to say about their evil agenda and the accusations made against constance singam and the old guards.

  • Anj

    It is really puzzling why people continue to see homosexuality as a practice.

    It’s sexual orientation, not behavior.

    A homosexual can be celibate, but gay nonetheless. Homosexuality is not a practice, but how someone is wired.

  • mice is nice

    re post # 63) Ah Teck on April 29th, 2009 1.38 pm

    parents should not blame all the wayward behaviour a child picks up on schools. a school is not a prison where a kid spends 24 hours in. responsible parents who love their kids need (& they should) to find time to spend build rapport with their children.

    if parents can say “i don’t know what goes on in their child/ren’s life/lives”, how far are irresponsible parents going to outsource child care responsibilties? lol…

    where’s the love? *sigh

  • lobo76

    Has the letter been ‘updated’?

    See last 3rd para, last sentence on TOC:
    “The schools did not receive any negative feedback from students or parents who attended the workshops and talks.”

    and compare the 3rd para on MOE site.
    “The schools did not receive any negative feedback from students who attended the workshops and talks or their parents.”

    The former alludes that parent attended, whilst the latter does not. Which is it?

  • mice is nice

    eh, its a school workshop, not a parents workshop?

    the difference could be an assumption that the level of communication between the parent & child is not “closed”, that they are on talking terms. & that parents do care enough to know their child/ren.

    not some “i am too busy working to communicate with them/him/her”. its not the first day the talks are introduced into school curriculum…

    a probable interpretation of the difference in words? -.-

  • arcticbear

    Maybe my ENGLAND no good, but i think what MOE is trying to put across is that the programs conducted by the 3rd party agencies (in this case AWARE) adhered with the stipulated guidelines. As such, the content was permissible. Beyond this systemic level, MOE was also trying to add that there were no complains or objections by students or parents on this approved content. MOE’s intent is to state that checks are in place and that schools work within a stipulated boundary. Their statement do not suggest or imply that MOE is a passive governing body and that schools have free rein as long as no complains surface.

  • PJ

    To 71) articbear on April 29th :

    Your England beary good leh.

  • Just wondering

    51) Retrenched Fluffer on April 29th, 2009 3.14 am
    <>

    I’m thinking about the logistics of this whole thing. So far, voting at AWARE meetings is by show of hands. If Expo Hall 2 is packed to capacity, how are they going to count the votes?

  • huh.

    i’m not sure if anyone has considered this yet, but the import of the MOE statement is also this:

    only a secular group can carry out CSE courses. with the COOS mobilizing its members publicly (and with the new Exco mainly from there), it’s going to be hard defending AWARE as being completely non-partisan.. more than just Christian, it’s particularly a COOS-affiliated brand of Christianity. the onus, then, is on them to prove that despite everything they are secular–good luck with that.

    if there’s even a tinge of suspicion that they’re not (any parents can complain), then they can’t conduct CSE–a perfect catch-22. by wanting to change CSE, they are unable to perform it;

    unless, of course, they adhere to the current (presumably, since MOE has so much as publicly endorsed it–secular) CSE programmes. which of course they morally cannot do.

    they’re being backed in a corner, by the very constitution of Singapore itself (as a multi-racial multi-religious society). and this doesn’t Even have anything to do with homosexuality–yet. don’t you see how brilliant the MOE reply is?

    in a game of chess, one can fight one despite an impending checkmate–it makes no difference, it’s just a game. in life, however, the damage and fallout from this blatant bigotry will be done to Christianity as a whole (since Thio and co. are so happy to be inclusive about it–instead of recognising that their church =/= a denomination, and even then a demonination itself =/= all of the religion); and it will be on their heads.

  • la nausée

    Not sure whether this has already been noted, but the new Exco has compiled and posted online some evidence to substantiate its allegations. Most if not all of it isn’t new, though:

    AWARE Old Guard hijacked against family values

  • Ah Teck, you are all messed up

    “63) Ah Teck on April 29th, 2009 1.38 pm But as parents we are more concern whether the programme condone homosexual lifestyle, which was never express in the statement.”

    huh !!!! leading question. should the statement expressly exclude anything or everything under the sun that is no desirable.

    so as parents, are you also concerned whether the programme condones hetrosexual lifestyle, etc. if ‘normal’ acceptable sex education is in place, does it lead to the assumption that it condones normal hetrosexual lifestyle and if so to what extent. and if so, is it much better ?

    say if you learn mathematics, does it mean that it promotes / condones cheating.
    say if you learn hard physics, does it mean that it promotes / condones the making of destructive weapons.
    say if you learn criminal law, does it mean that it promotes / condones criminality.

  • http://yahoo Peace

    Maybe you like to know what is happening to the marriage institution as held dearly by ALL cultures and religions . Please share, If there is one culture or religion that has a different view . I am sure the great commentators here and the ‘hug the coconut tree’ gang will like to know too.
    Marriage is the union of a man and woman to the exclusion of all others.
    I wonder you guys still adhere to this definition.
    The worrying TREND , Singapore not spared, is that the above definition is now seen as DISCRIMINATORY. The 3rd genders are demanding this change. In the run up to this change there are insidious programs being planned and to start off ,the schools are the obvious choice. Many of you have allowed the wool to be pulled over your eyes.The old school has labeled them as moral vigilante. Discount if you must , but do pay heed to what is happening at your door steps. Save your already afflicted children from being further aggravated by the agents and messengers of the abhorrent ways of life.

  • WhatandHuh

    Lalalala…..

    Can everybody see the PDF (AWARE Old Guard hijacked against family values)?

    Hahahah…it is really a CLASSIC COMPILATION OF A DIRECT CLASH TO THEIR CHRISTIAN BELIEFS, all compressed in a pathetic PDF!!!!

    So is that all those fundamentalist have?That’s all?Hahaha…..very funny..a weak stunt in defending and hiding their devious motives and yet they dare to call it breaking news???I kept seeing, homosexuality, pre-marital sex, bla bla bla….all are religiously WRONG, WRONG in their christian views!!! They are pushing their religious limits on everybody. Totally unacceptable!

    Josie Lau and Thio Su Mien, get the hell out of AWARE! We don’t need extremists to run the association. Very narrow-minded and conservative group of old women who have nothing but evil, sick motives tagged to themselves. All they could dig up are merely sins in their christian views. The society is far more complicated than the sins in christianity and fundamentalist christians are not fit to run AWARE if they can’t even embrace and tolerate The Worse Sins.

  • JL

    #77 peace,

    more hugs

  • la nausée

    @Peace (7.09 pm), you might like to know that liberalism and secular humanism also qualify as ‘cultures’. Moreover, not all religions prescribe that marriage should be exclusively monogamous, and some are entirely silent on it — which shows that there is no consensus on marriage being the union of ‘one woman and one man’.

    And if you wish to “save your already afflicted children”, by all means do that saving within your household and your place of worship. The state-education system must remain scrupulously neutral as between different religions. It cannot be teaching that homosexuality is wrong, because that is effectively marginalize students of non-heterosexual orientation (like it or not, gay and lesbian teens do exist). And to deny a child the right to a proper education is surely an abominable sin.

  • HT

    #78 Peace

    “Marriage is the union of a man and woman to the exclusion of all others”

    Well, great – that’s your view. Shared by many, I am sure, but not by some. And you claim that the old AWARE pushed the opposite point in the schools. But that is false! Where, when and how? I know the evil ones (since TOC doesn’t allow me to use a certain word) have put out a webpage, which I have read (see, I read before I criticise) but nowhere, repeat nowhere, is there a single shred of evidence to the false claim that the old AWARE pushed for a gay lifestyle (whatever that means) or were pro-gay or were antiunion of man and woman as marriage.

    Please tell me where.

    By all means, campaign against those who try to propagate an alternative lifestyle if you don’t agree with them. That is your right. But please don’t cite falsehoods and truth and slander good people who gave their time and energy for society, some people who have sneaked around and tell lies.

  • EL

    77) Peace: Marriage is the union of a man and woman to the exclusion of all others.

    So are you suggesting that everyone wage a cyberwar with Islam as well?

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/04954915133103758423 Jaunty Jabber

    Even with MOE’s press release clarifying the past AWARE school programs has met with the MOE criteria and boundary, it does not equals to a 100% foolproof from unofficial deliveries of personal ideas & beliefs, if there is astray trainer who might have made use of AWARE and schools as bridges to reach out.

    MOE recent statements are fair & just based on the visible items that were officially submitted, checked, delivered and filed. If students are exposed to special sharing after the programs, then things will goes on quietly & away from the visibility of MOE and parents. Of course, this would only happen if there is errant trainer.

    Exco of AWARE should make sure that all their trainers & members do not make use of its label to deliver personal beliefs that were not endorsed by the institution.

    Should MOE conduct further background checks with greater depth? Should MOE assign volunteers from parent’s group to follow-up with all students and the respective family members to check if there is any private communication with errant trainer several months after the programs. (of course that’s alot to do if the pre-checks are inadequately carried out).

    A few more questions I am asking:

    Did MOE restrict trainers from teaching the students beyond the classroom?

    Did MOE restrict trainers from distributing personal contact details to students? (This is like protectionism but it is necessary if pre-checks are inadequate).

    Is it OK if Trainer teach without MOE & AWARE’s boundaries during class but after class the Trainer inculcate differently?

    I do trust that the AWARE’s materials which were approved by MOE are fit for its purpose and meet all criteria. What I like to probe is whether the existing MOE criteria is adequate and whether there are sufficient muscles to deploy more extensive pre-checks, post-checks and audit to ensure that nothing goes astray. Sounds a bit like perfectionism here, but I think being kia-su is worthwhile.

    It is really a worry for things that might goes on After Class. Not During Class.

  • mice is nice

    the trust between the parents/s child should be the main issue. parents must actively seek to know the child/ren & not passthe-buck.

    being kiasu is fine but dun let it gain a stranglehold.

    in any relationship, this being parent/s & child/ren. communication is key, for its a very good way to build trust, if not the best way.

    i like to know “where is the trust?”

    cannot control the child/ren too tight, since each child/ren is unique, parent/s must spend more time to know him/her/them. the more you know the more you can trust.

  • http://tigertang.multiply.com Tang Li

    Hey, let’s get one thing straight here. Nobody is talking about Gay Rights or changing the idea of marriage being a union between man or woman.

    What we are talking about here is a case of credibility. Dr Thio made a public statement of how the Old Guard were conducting classes that promoted homosexuality. She offered utterly no proof but claimed that certain things were said.

    Now, the Ministry has clarified that her claims were not true. So what exactly does this mean? It certainly does not mean that gay rights will be enhanced. More likely that Thio and her gang have been exposed.

  • la nausée

    @Jaunty Jabber,

    Do you realize how silly you sound? AWARE is a public organization, with a website, an official hotline and a fixed place of ‘business’. There is nothing stopping savvy students from reaching out if they want any clarifications, or if they want to get involved in advocating women’s rights. It’s just like any other talk. If a talk was delivered by, say, the SPCA, and a student’s interest is piqued enough to want to find out more information, then more power to him or her. Our teenagers are not the idiots you paint them to be.

    There is also little stopping students from chatting up strangers online, and entering into sexual relations with them. Or ‘learning’ about sex from the older students’ accounts of their own trysts. Or accessing online pornography, including those which depict women being raped and humiliated. Or posting inappropriate photos of themselves on Facebook and Friendster, or MMS-ing them to their boyfriend or girlfriend.

    In short, there are a million dangers out there far greater than students liasing with a school-approved and experienced trainer from a registered, well-established civil society group…. dangers which CSE programmes like AWARE’s are precisely aimed at addressing.

    Please, stop looking at the world through the distorted lens that TSM and Co. have shoved in front of you.

  • http://yahoo Peace

    81) Jaunty Jabber on April 30th, 2009 1.05 am ,
    if you send people like la anausee, t, jl to check on them it may end up in an orgy.
    JL and La naausee , wonder you understand the statement or you are twisitng the statement.
    Marriage is a union of a MAN and a WOMAN and NOT a man and a man or woman and a woman or a man with 10 women or a women with 10 men or a man with 10 men or a woman with 10 women etc and all other permutations…
    IN a marriage the man is known as husband and the woman as the wife and NOT
    partners in a hawker business or in a law firm. it is beyond a contract. Till death do they part and not till they get tired of each other . It is vow which partners in a business contract don’t pledge. You gay activists may have outlandish definition, I suggest that you impart this value to your children if you really believe
    that this is the right model.

  • observ

    Just read “AWARE old guards hijacked against family values” posted on the AWARE website.

    MOE asked for evidence that the old guards have been promoting homosexuality and lesbianism. The details in that article is comprehensive evidence that the CSE sessions conducted by AWARE have been promoting homosexuality.
    How much more clear-cut evidence does MOE need?
    These are being taught:
    *Anal sex – can be healthy or neutral if practiced with consent and
    with a condom.
    *Pre-marital sex – people might place pre-marital sex as negative,
    but it is really neutral.
    their partners.
    *Homosexuality is perfectly normal.

    CSE trainer resource materials:
    *Fridae.com
    *People Like Us (PLU)
    *Pelangi Pride Centre

    Does MOE really agree to all these stuff being taught to our students ?? MOE needs to give an answer to parents. This is no time for MOE to remain silent.

  • i love the world marriage institution

    “Maybe you like to know what is happening to the marriage institution as held dearly by ALL cultures and religions .”

    So ?? dearly !! and this is true as far as procreation neccessitates the consumation of marriage between a male and female. outside than this, it is pretty much free for more as long as the acts are not ‘illegal’ as defined.

    all cultures and religions also hold dear to the fact that we need food, water & air to survive.
    most cultures and religions also hold dear to the need that we have to respect one another except once in a while this need gets twisted out of shape by some.

    a lot of us make promises & swear in front of a marriage registrar when we get married in ROM. after that, surely you know what goes on and probably most of us have some friends who have been in this situation also.

  • Brayden

    MOE and the minister said there are no complaints received to date (last week). Guess what? Some clever folks are emailing all their friends to GENERATE those complaints, such as the example appended below. BTW, none of my two kids in ACJC have come across the “offensive” material mentioned.

    Quote:
    Dear parents,

    For your immediate attention. Fwding some more info that prayerfully can
    help us see the aggresive and thwarted works of the Evil one thru the well
    meaning but totally brain – washed old guard of AWARE.

    I’m extremely saddened and concerned and I felt compelled to share…just
    last Monday,my son in ACJC had for his GP lesson for discussion the topic
    on alternative family structure frm MOE- they were given notes for
    discussion on topic of same- sex marriage and same -sex parents with
    adoption of children to form a family unit. with new terminology – PINK
    PARENTS.

    Students were given a worksheet with questions about what is their
    idea of a nuclear family unit, what are their views about same -sex parents
    forming family unit and whether the government in S’pore will legalize gay
    marriages and whether they are for or against it. During which they also
    watched a documentary of “a look into lifestyles of some same- sex marriage
    or Pink Parent family.

    “Notes given were of 2 particular case study of :
    1) Molly ( toddler ) with 2 moms

    2) A gay who wanted to have children decided to cohabit with a lesbian couple and between them they bore 2 girls – of course it showed them looking as happy and adjusted
    as any normal family. It’s scary to think how children will be like growing
    up in such unconventional and dysfunctional family set up!

    My son’s response was that of disgust and I was relieved my son’s lesson
    was navigated by a christian teacher. I can’t imagine how it will be if its
    dicussion was led by one who is liberal in this view.

    My Questions are does our mission school have a choice to reject such materials tho frm MOE?

    Though discussions on it can be discussed in a healthy and matured way, is
    it necessary to put our children in such position that they have to choose
    for or against something that is so obviously wrong – as long as Penal code
    377A is still in place?
    Will the viewing of such images leave confusion in our children’s impresionable minds?

    My friend’s daughter in another JC was given a 80+ paged notes (with
    pictures of lesbians kissing – not allowed actually by censor board even in
    worldly magazines.Thankfully ACJC was more careful with this).
    The students have to study the notes and sit for a quiz! With notes were offered link to
    helpline and counselling from Aware.(ACJC’s does not have)

    Can we just sit back and not do something about it, as concerned parents?
    We have been praying for years for our children’s well being, maybe it’s a
    call now to go beyond just praying. We have to make our stand clearly and
    firmly for God and our children are watching us.

    Think and pray seriously about it,trust in God’s sovereignity (casting out
    all fear) in this situation and obey His direction.

    We do not act as representatives of any prayer group,church or school.

    In the same way that we could accept a drug addict but we cannot accept the
    act of taking drugs, we also could accept a homosexual but we should
    not allow our children to be taught that choosing homosexuality is
    acceptable. It’s not a civil right but a personal choice that should not be
    imposed on our society. Let’s protect all the children in S’pore.

    Concerned n Prayerful,

    Unquote:

  • gemami

    Dear #81) Jaunty Jabber,

    It’s been along time coming and it seems that you are beginning to get a grip of the situation. You are right that MOE’s approved syllabus is not 100% foolproof. It is the same with any of the other subjects that a student is being taught. No one can guarantee that it is 100% foolproof, that the learning student would go on to grasp the lessons at 100% absorption rates. The trainer, or teacher, has just an important role as the syllabus that is prepared for him to teach.

    Leaving your questions aside, it is great to hear that you “…trust AWARE’s materials which were approved by MOE are fit for its purpose and meet all criteria“. So we are agreed that that AWARE’s materials are weighted for a balanced consumption.

    You questioned: “ What I like to probe is whether the existing MOE criteria is adequate and whether there are sufficient muscles to deploy more extensive pre-checks, post-checks and audit to ensure that nothing goes astray. Sounds a bit like perfectionism here, but I think being kia-su is worthwhile.
    “.

    What are the “… extensive pre-checks, post-checks and audit to ensure that nothing goes astray” you are implying? What must these checks conform with, to ascertain that “…nothing goes astray“?

    Herein lies the source of the raging debate with one side fighting for the rights of the homosexual to be treated equally as fellow human beings, while the other side fights to exclude them because of their sexual orientation. Whose side then should MOE take?

    Since you trust MOE, I would also suggest that you consider that they had weighed the differences of both divides and had taken a middle ground to assess and approve the educational materials being used, and this is in no small measure the works of the old AWARE.

    Now coming back to your questions, which in effect questioned the integrity of the trainers. Should you not also consider that the stringent guidelines and regulations governing MOE’s pool of teachers and trainers have been adequately measured to reduce or eliminate such deviant behaviours?

    Okay, maybe you are talking about the AWARE trainers. Then again, do you not trust MOE’s assessment that these are credible trainers who will adhere to the guidelines of MOE? No one will blame you if you do not but they will want to know your reasons. For example, are they governed solely by your religion? Is it because this is the right thing to do for your faith and your belief in your God? Are you compelled to act for your God to eliminate the socially sick people of the country?

    Also, it is hard to understand your fear that the exchange of phone numbers and the availability of the AWARE trainers after lesson hours are cause for concern that these trainers are seeking the students out to plant a revolutionary doctrine into their heads. If anything, it would most likely be the students who would seek the trainers out to seek help to deal with their sexuality problem.

  • lockeliberal

    Dear Brayden

    God its GP after all GENERAL paper. Tell you what GP should not discuss controversial issues of the day. In fact 17 and 18 year olds should only DISCUSS non controversial issues in GP where the answers are already KNOW and which discussion will be allowed but within safe moral BOUNDS as defined by sound christian values . For example Homosexuality is bad please answer yes or yes yes yes and they should all BURN in hell

    If Same Sex Marriage is a current social issue so be it discuss it then, I remember arguing for Abortion when I was a student because Roe vs Wade was a serious issue at that time. What an stupid ” moral ” parent

    Locke

  • Peoni

    @observ on April 30th, 2009 10.06 am

    What clear-cut evidence are you talking about?Are you trying to insult the intelligence of MOE?Or you just cannot see that everything was done solely in the best interest of the school children?

    If exploring diversified topics such as homosexuality is so taboo in your views, why don’t you advise the christian parents to put their kids in a pure christian school instead?COOS may wish to set up one. Old AWARE is just trying to prepare the children in dealing with topics which are not widely discussed in the society and even their own parents. Would you rather see that the curious children going all the way out to experience homosexuality just to learn the meaning behind it OR get some teachers to advise them accordingly?So despite the ample blasting of facing consequences of having pre-marital sex, did it stop any young women or men from having sex?No..they still continue experimenting it out of curiousity. So is it the school’s fault or the parent’s?The school obviously cannot control their movements after school hours but parents CAN but they chose not to.You don’t understand youngsters at all. It is not about the wrongful things that they will deem it wrong, it is what they will do because it is wrong. We call this a rebellous phase. Hit the nail, bear the pain and move on. Good survivor skills when they get to work in the practical and vicious society next time. It is part and parcel of growing up and many children, including adults, learn from past mistakes and experiences. Unless you are telling me that you are a saint, which is highly, unlikely.

  • lockeliberal

    Dear Jaunty

    As Gemani has pointed out, A government has a position of “tolerance” and acceptance, COSS has thought otherwise and has taught its flock otherwise, For some acceptance and tolerance of homsexuality and their partners is equivalent to promotion, for some teaching acceptance and tolerance is the same as encouragement because the prescribed moral position is “condemnation.”

    For some any form of sex education outside of the prescribed church notion is encouragement to promiscuity, for others in view of what’s available its just best to educate the kids and leave morality to church and family.

    Juanty you have more or less accussed AWARE trainners of impropriety just as the New AWARE has done,

    Derek Hong says Pro Family Views are being persecuted, funny last I checked it was liberal femminism that had been hijacked through stealth by his church members. Last I Checked no one said he could not set up a focus on family, and no one has stopped his choices programme.

    Locke

  • smallvice585

    to gemami #89,

    the idea of meeting one’s sex-ed teacher after school hours is just suspicious…

  • Double-Edge Sword

    I agree with comment (#81) by Jaunty Jabber on April 30th, 2009 1.05 am.

    MOE should do follow-ups to ensure nothing fishy can go on after the lessons. A teacher or trainer may arrange with the students to meet outside school and then try to brain-wash, lure or entrap them into something that the teacher or trainer may have wanted them to do – for example, to become a member of their church.

    Such incidents have happened before and I believe MOE is fully aware of such behind-the-back creepy underhand actions by some errant teachers or trainers with hidden selfish agendas.

  • la nausée

    @Double-Edge Sword, smallvice 585: The same thing could happen for any kind of talk given in a school. For instance, in order to raise the students’ awareness of the arts, the director of a theatre production company comes to school to give a talk.

    Besides, what about all the other 3rd parties involved in students’ extra-curricular activities? Sports coaches, scout leaders, music directors, etc.. Why not worry more about them trying to ‘brain-wash, lure or entrap’ our students, since the contact hours are far greater than just a mere 3 hours?

    86) observ on April 30th, 2009 10.06 am

    This is what you call clear-cut evidence for the promotion of homosexuality? Please read the statements again, and in context:

    “Anal sex – can be healthy or neutral if practised with consent and with a condom.”

    “Homosexual — people have different preferences for their partners. Homosexuality is perfectly normal. Just like heterosexuality, it is simply the way you are. Homosexuals also form meaningful relationships, and face the same emotional issues that heterosexuals do. The Singapore law does not recognize homosexuality and deems homosexual sexual activities as unnatural.”

    “Pre-marital sex – people might place pre-marital sex as negative, but it is really neutral. The key is whether the couple is aware of the consequences and responsibilities and is ready for them. Sex with girls under 14 with or without consent, is considered as statutory rape. Sex with girls under 16, with or without consent, is considered as carnal connection.”

  • gemami

    The possibility of a teacher luring his students to become members of his church is very much higher than one who would lure the students into becoming homosexuals.

  • cat’s poop

    @ la nausée, the parts you italicised are somehow invisible to COOS and the likes. everyone is selective in what they read.

    come let’s go hug tree together with zefly!

  • Joel Low

    I am happy because it exposed the lies the new EXCO is trying to use to indoctrinate the public minds to manipulate them. Lying Christians ……. Their actions and lies have expose them that they are doing it for themselves and not the people and definitely not for GOD.

    Shameful Christian destroying the name and the integrity of Christianity and the church. If COOS continues to support all these lies than they are no better. It is a very sad day. GOD do not lie and He will not use lie to carry out HIS plan. So God is not with them. SORRY….. this is the truth.

  • observ

    95) la nausée,

    If after reading what the old AWARE CSE has been teaching our school students, and you still are able to defend and justify it, it leaves me to hope that you do not have any children. (If you do have children, my heart goes out to them.)

    Ask any parents and they will tell you how wrong it is to allow the old AWARE team to teach our children such garbage.

    But your view doesn’t really matter. What matters now is MOE’s view and stand. This CSE program needs to be stopped. No two ways about it.

  • la nausée

    @observ,
    “it leaves me to hope that you do not have any children. (If you do have children, my heart goes out to them.”

    Right back at you.

  • Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang)

    “@ la nausée, the parts you italicised are somehow invisible to COOS and the likes. everyone is selective in what they read.”

    Reminds me of the Gold 90 Fm ad on TV, the one with the driving coach berating the bad female driver… she only hears what she wanna hear… and it sounds like this-

    “Anal… Homos… rape…. premartal…carnal… unnatural…”

  • sigh!

    I am confused. After reading the Education Ministry’s explanation about the sexual educaiton programme in schools, it looks like there is nothing wrong with it.

    However, in the Sunday Times, it was stated that one example of the programme that is controversial is this: “Anal sex ‘can be healthy or neutral if practised with consent and with a condom.”

    Surely “anal sex” is considered an unnatural act in our legal system and anyone who indulges in it publicly can be prosecuted. If that is the case, how
    can it be okay if that is being promoted in our schools?

  • inferno

    -> 98) observ on April 30th, 2009 1.03 pm

    You appear to be very upset over the content of the CSE programs. Yet thus far, you have merely quoted from the CSE trainer handbook, without actually justifying your stand that the contents are repugnant. I quote, “Ask ANY parents and they will tell you how WRONG it is to allow the old AWARE team to teach our children such GARBAGE” [my emphasis]. I hope you don’t need me to point out that your statement above is entirely meaningless, given that it can be instantly countered by producing a SINGLE (heterosexual) parent couple who are neutral with regards to, say, homosexuality. The parts you have highlighted (e.g. anal sex, pre-marital sex, homosexuality) are (from what I understand from the CSE material) presented in a neutral and non-judgmental way. ‘Non-judgmental’ does not only mean one does not criticise it; rather it means that one refrains from giving any opinion about it, whether for or against.

    So let us proceed in a stepwise, logical fashion.
    Step One: Either you must include such ‘taboo’ topics in the course, or not. No other alternative to these two options, a simple binary Yes or No.
    If Yes-> Go to Step Two.
    If No-> Surely you cannot think that glossing over / ignoring these issues (which undoubtedly exist) would ‘insulate’ or ‘protect’ our younger generation from them? On the flipside, would you rather have your children ‘discover’ the juicy details when they (eventually) stumble upon, say, ‘non-mainstream’ websites? It does not even have to be pornography you know, it could merely be something as ‘innocent’ as watching a movie. E.g. what sort of ideas do you think teenagers would get from watching the American Pie series? Singaporean society today is hardly a remote monastery high up in the mountains.

    Step Two: Given that we agree that these ‘taboo’ topics must be brought up one way or another, the next question is in what light should we present them? There are three options, pro / neutral / against. Clearly the pro stance should be eliminated without need for further debate. So it boils down to neutral vs against. Since you clearly have an issue with portraying these topics in a neutral light, then we can conclude that you want the CSE trainers to present them to the students as something … detestable? … unnatural?

    Being pro-abstinence is probably the most defensible of positions here, and I too am pro-abstinence at heart. But I will admit upfront that this is an idealistic stance, because we have to be realistic in today’s modern context. Demonising pre-marital sex has never been shown to reduce its occurrence; on the contrary the numbers seem to rise (the whole ‘forbidden fruit’ theory).

    Homosexuality? So you expect the trainers to go all out and lampoon homosexuals? As if there isn’t enough social stigma going round already? Do you seriously believe Singaporean youth nowadays actually NEED some adult to TELL them that it is ‘unnatural’? Last I heard, not every school here was a convent, full of ‘pure and innocent’ minds. During my schooling days, there were some individuals that probably were (are) gay, and everyone knew it, but it was an unsaid rule that we treated them just as another of the guys, nothing more or less. That does not mean that we didn’t know, neither did such acceptance mean that more of the ‘straight’ guys started to develop homosexual tendencies. If anything, it is precisely this message, that we should never discriminate against homosexuals (or anyone else, for that matter), that should be spread and reiterated to our younger generation by responsible adults.

    This entire argument has been an exceedingly simple dichotomy. Either you talk about it, or skip it altogether. If you choose to talk about it, either you do it from a neutral or an ‘against’ position. If you were in charge of this program at AWARE, what choices would YOU make, and why? That is, I believe, what many of the readers here would like to know, and without justification, your view is moot.

    *As an afterthought, my brother who is in CJC recently attended a talk in school by some doctors from some Singaporean association of Catholic (surprise!) doctors, and basically they preached (pun entirely intended) about how abstinence is the way to go, and about how abortion is wrong, etc. Interestingly enough, they were smart enough to skirt the contraceptives issue. But anyway my point is this, if this organisation, which is clearly religious, is allowed to give ‘pro-life’ talks to students, why can’t CSE trainers approach similar issues from a neutral point of view? Somehow, I am quite certain that if the CSE booklet had included the phrase “ABORTION IS NEUTRAL”, you would have happily plonked it down with the rest of the quotes.
    If that does not convince you, go google “Focus on the Family” and take a look at the pamphlets that they distribute IN SCHOOLS, talking about how homosexuals can be “changed” (read: saved), etc, and basically insinuating the entire time that it is somehow morally wrong to be gay.
    Bonus question: No prizes for guessing which SENIOR DBS EXECUTIVE was in responsible for making FOTF one of the bank’s supported charities.

  • inferno

    “99) la nausée on April 30th, 2009 1.10 pm

    @observ,
    “it leaves me to hope that you do not have any children. (If you do have children, my heart goes out to them.”

    Right back at you.”

    That is, without a doubt, the best riposte I have encountered so far anywhere.
    /Hats off to you Sir.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/04954915133103758423 Jaunty Jabber

    Dear lockeliberal @92)

    Do note that there is NO accusation in my comment. I am only suggesting some possible scenario that might occur, the whole backdrop of my comment is on “maybe” basis.

    Regards

  • JL

    #85 peace,

    i have never written anything about marriage, so how to twist?

    i only offered you more hugs, but obviously you were too angry to read carefully all our comments, anyone objecting to your view is twisted…sigh sigh

    neh mind, more hugs ok?

  • Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang)

    “Preserve the Law, but don’t impose it on the Gentiles,” Paul of Tarsus to James (from the Emmy Award Mini-Series ‘Peter and Paul’.)

    Anthony Hopkins gave a really cool performance of Paul btw.

  • JL

    #85 peace,

    and how come “if you send people like la anausee, t, jl to check on them it may end up in an orgy.”

    and can you be VERY CLEAR and support with evidence, in all my postings for the past 2 days, which part did i support casual sex among teenagers, and a preference for orgy?

    or is it because i offer to hug you?

    if you cannot, then i can only conlude that you are only capable of bashing whoever, along the way, you FEEL may differ from your views.

    how come so like the new exco team one?

    but neh mind, i am still hug you.

  • cat’s poop

    the MOE wants our kids to have more independent thinking, and here “concerned parents” want schools to spoonfeed their children again.

    back to square one again la!

    if, IF, just by teaching kids that these are neutral and the kids will straightaway go and test it out themselves, then there prolly is already something wrong with the kids. like that really become mati la singapore!

    -.-ll

  • HT

    What is happening now is that after it has been conclusively shown that the allegations of “promoting a gay lifestyle” has been effectively debunked, the allegedly “concerned parents” are now circulating a petition to the government to scream against parties who are attempting to push such alternate lifestyles. Someone sent me a copy of a letter that is circulating, full of emotion but short on facts.

    But who? Who is pushing what? Who invaded and hijacked the old AWARE? Amazing isn’t it? Imagine a criminal breaking into your house and trying to steal your stuff and when you break his nose, he calls the police and accuses you of assault. Sigh. What is SIngapore coming to?

    Dear Friends, relatives and all concern parents,

    DANGER OF SEX EDUCATION IN SCHOOLS PROMOTING HOMOSEXUALITY AS NORMAL AND ANAL SEX AS HEALTHY

    We are writing as concerned parents in regard to the gay community and activists having again aggressively pushing of their Homosexual agenda into the schools and education system; trying to redefine the meaning of marriage and to redefine the meaning of family.

    Our Prime Minister, Mr. Lee Hsien Loong in his policy statement on the debate on Homosexuality in Parliament explained the Government’s stand and why 377A was not repeal; in his speech he also rightly preempted this move by the gay activist to PUSH FOR MORE, “to change what taught in schools, to advocate same-sex marriages and parenting”.

    He said, “Among the conservative Singaporeans, the deep concerns over the moral values of society will remain and among the gay rights’ activists, abolition is not going to give them what they want because what they want is not just to be freed from section 377A, but more space and full acceptance by other Singaporeans. And they have said so. So, supposing we move on 377A, I think the gay activists would push for more, following the example of other avant garde countries in Europe and America, to change what is taught in the schools, to advocate same-sex marriages and parenting, to ask for, to quote from their letter, “…exactly the same rights as a straight man or woman.” This is quoting from the open letter which the petitioners wrote to me. And when it comes to these issues, the majority of Singaporeans will strenuously oppose these follow-up moves by the gay campaigners and many who are not anti-gay will be against this agenda, and I think for good reason”. LEE HSIEN LOONG in Parliament on 23 Oct 2007

    Again quoting our Prime Minister on the Government’s stand and Singaporean society’s stand and definition on Marriage and Family;

    He stated, “Many Members have said this, but it is true and it is worth saying again. Singapore is basically a conservative society. The family is the basic building block of our society. It has been so and, by policy, we have reinforced this and we want to keep it so. And by “family” in Singapore, we mean one man one woman, marrying, having children and bringing up children within that framework of a stable family unit.” LEE HSIEN LOONG in Parliament on 23 Oct 2007

    So as the silent majority of Singaporean of many whom are not anti-gay; but are strenuously opposed to these follow-up moves by the gay campaigners to push their agenda “to change what is taught in the schools, to advocate same-sex marriages and parenting”

    I strongly urge you to rise up and let your stand be stated clearly and heard resoundingly by joining us in supporting and reinforcing our Prime Minister, Lee Hsien Loong, and the Government’s policy on Marriage and Family; and to urge the Minister of Education and the Ministry of Education to come into alignment, promote and educate our children in accordance to of this policy in all their schools’ syllabus and sex education programs.

    If you are willing, please click forward on this email,
    and then delete all the above text,
    leaving the below “Appeal Letter to our Prime Minister on Marriage and Family Values”
    Please fill in your full name and NRIC and address to register your appeal as bona fide.
    Please email TO: lee_hsien_loong@pmo.gov.sg and click SEND.

    ——————————————————————————————————————-
    CLICK “FORWARD” and send this entire email to all your friends and relatives to read and participate in this “Appeal to our PM”
    ——————————————————————————————————————-

    TO SEND YOUR APPEAL TO OUR PRIME MINISTER, PLEASE CLICK “FORWARD” AND DELETE ALL THE ABOVE TEXTS LEAVING THE BELOW LETTER

    ——————————————————————————————————————-

    The Prime Minister
    Mr. Lee Hsien Loong

    “Appeal Letter to our Prime Minister on Marriage and Family Values”

    We/ I are/am writing as concerned parents/ individual in regard to the gay community and activists having again staged another push of their Homosexual agenda into the schools and education; through hijacking “sex education” in our public school curriculum and in doing so, trying to purport and redefine the meaning of marriage and to redefine the meaning of family.

    Our definition on Family and Marriage is unequivocal; “The family is the basic building block of our society and we want to keep it so. And by “family” in Singapore, we mean one man one woman, marrying, having children and bringing up children within that framework of a stable family unit.” This stand is in absolute agreement and uniform to your Government policy’s stand on Family and Marriage.

    Prime Minister, in your policy statement on the debate on Homosexuality in Parliament on 23 Oct 2007, you explained succinctly the Government’s stand and why 377A was not repeal. In your speech you also rightly preempted this present move by the gay activist to PUSH FOR MORE, “to change what taught in schools, to advocate same-sex marriages and parenting”.

    Again quoting from your same speech, Mr. Prime Minister, on the Government’s stand and on Singaporean society’s stand and definition on Marriage and Family; you stated, “Many Members have said this, but it is true and it is worth saying again. Singapore is basically a conservative society. The family is the basic building block of our society. It has been so and, by policy, we have reinforced this and we want to keep it so. And by “family” in Singapore, we mean one man one woman, marrying, having children and bringing up children within that framework of a stable family unit.”
    Further in your statement, you reiterated; “But a heterosexual stable family is a social norm. It is what we teach in schools. It is also what parents want their children to see as their children grow up, to set their expectations and encourage them to develop in this direction. I think the vast majority of Singaporeans want to keep it this way. They want to keep our society like this, and so does the Government.” ….. “This is the way Singapore society is today. This is the way the majority of Singaporeans want it to be. So, we should strive to maintain a balance, to uphold a stable society with traditional, heterosexual family values, but with space for homosexuals to live their lives and contribute to the society.”
    So as the silent majority of Singaporean of many whom are not anti-gay; but who are strenuously opposed to these follow-up moves by the gay campaigners to push their agenda “to change what is taught in the schools, to advocate same-sex marriages and parenting”;
    firstly, we strongly stated our unequivocal support to you, our Prime Minister, Mr. Lee Hsien Loong, and the abovementioned Government’s policy on Marriage and Family; and secondly to urge the Minister of Education and the Ministry of Education to come into alignment, promote and educate our children in strict adherent to this policy in all their schools’ syllabus and sex education programs.

    We want to further remind you Mr. Prime Minister of your own pragmatic balance to this issue that can polarize our society; and strongly urge you not to allow or encourage activists to champion gay rights as they do in the West so that there is space in Singapore and room for us to live harmoniously and practically, all as Singapore citizens together.

    “I think we have also been right to adapt, to accommodate homosexuals in our society, but not to allow or encourage activists to champion gay rights as they do in the West. So I suggest, Mr Speaker, and I suggest to the Members of the House, we keep this balance, leave section 377A alone. I think there is space in Singapore and room for us to live harmoniously and practically, all as Singapore citizens together.” Lee Hsien Loong in Parliament on 23 Oct 2007 as recorded by Official Parliamentary Reports (Hansard)

    Yours faithfully,

    Fill in Full Name (Electronic Email needs no signature)
    Your NRIC
    Your Address
    (* It is important to give your full name, NRIC, and address, so that they can acknowledge you as a real person or citizen exercising your constitution right to speak and be heard.)

  • briano

    “Marriage is a union of a MAN and a WOMAN and NOT a man and a man or woman and a woman or a man with 10 women or a women with 10 men or a man with 10 men or a woman with 10 women etc and all other permutations…”

    Peace – Islam allows marriage between 1 man and up to three women. This is contrary to your deifnition of marriage. Do you think that the right currently granted to Muslims men to marry up to 3 women should be revoked?

  • http://www.glass-castle.org Jolene

    The fact that there is now an online petition set up calling for MOE to review sex education programmes does not actually support the new Exco’s position. It simply underscores the fact that they could have started public dialogue about the programmes any time they liked, just by speaking up, without any takeover shenanigans.

    More here:

    http://www.glass-castle.org/blog/2009/04/here-comes-horse.html

    Jolene

  • keeith

    Please take a look at
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/parents_sex_ed_appeal/index.html

    how many parents are making a fool of themselves there. By saying things that are very very narrow minded. It just goes to show what kind of children that they will bring up.

    Please do not impose your religious views on others. Believe what you want others to believe but do not expect other Singaporeans who are more liberal to follow suit.

    If you think they will burn in hell, then let them burn. You don’t need to be saviour for everyone.

  • zach

    a lawyer which cannot use facts to substantiate her arguments and relies instead on pure baseless allegations. Shame on you TSM!

    And I fail to see why Allens Arthur Robinson, the Australian law firm which has an equal opportunities non-discrimination policy, would bother to enter into a joint venture with TSM’s firm. They should just call the whole thing off to avoid being tainted as being hypocritical!

  • zach

    am sure some of you might have seen this! Apparently, this email was leaked recently. So, it’s down to a fight between good and evil? Tsk tsk. This is so Xmen-like.

    “For those of you who are not plugged in to what has been happening in Spore in the last 1 month (esp my overseas friends), please uphold us in prayer as we wage a spiritual and moral battle for the control of a secular organisation that has been used by the liberals and gays to fight for homosexual rights in Spore.

    This group is known as AWARE (Association of Women for Action and Research) and it is the leading women’s organisation in Singapore and their views are seriously taken by the govt in policy implementation.

    In the last few years, this organisation has deviated from its original noble ideals of fighting against discrimnation against women in education and workplace and instead been taking up arms to decriminalise the homosexual act, promoting homosexual ideas thru their `sex education’ programs, sponsoring talks and the screening of a movie that promotes the homosexual lifestyle as `normal’.

    At the association’s AGM about 3 weeks ago, a group of valiant women decided that `enough is enough’ and they decided to vote in people whom they knew stood for pro-family values and godly principles.

    However, this obviously has not gone down well with the `old guard’ who accused the new EXCO of being anti-gay and using religion to advance their cause.

    The old guard has powerful connections with the press (one of them was the former editor of Business Times) and I believe 3 of them are ex and present NMPs (nominated Members of Parliment).

    The Straits Tiimes in particular have `demonised’ the new EXCO and have overtly been on the side of the old guard. We know that many of the senior editors of Straits Times are either gay or very liberal.

    For those of you still standing on the sideline and think this is just a cat fight between 2 camps of `power-hungry’ women, let me tell you that this is the furthest from the truth.

    I know one of the new EXCO members personally (some of you do as well..) and I can say for a fact that none of these women wanted to have their privacy lost, their families subjected to death threats, receive hate mails and sms-es, be harassed and misquoted by the press and media…..if not for a burning conviction that they are standing for the truth and holding back the tide of wickedness from sweeping our nation.

    These women want to bring the organisation back to its original ideals of fighting for the rights of all women. This has nothing to do with religion.

    Do not let the biased media blind your eyes to the truth of the matter. If you are a Sporean woman or PR, I urge you to walk the talk. Sign up for membership (go to http://www.aware.org.sg for online registration) and come for the EGM this Saturday to vote against the `no-confidence’ motion of the old guard.

    I have been told that at least over 550 of the OTHER camp has already signed up to vote. We are the majority, not the minority, but by our apathy, we let the minority win the battle.

    To quote Edmund Burke, `ALL IT TAKES FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IS FOR GOOD PEOPLE TO DO NOTHING”.

    God bless you all,”

  • zach

    hmm….if the new exco remains in power, I doubt women of other faiths who are in trouble would turn to aware. They would be immediately branded sinners and coerced into converting to Christianity. Similarly, prostitutes, teenage pregnant women would similarly be judged.

    On that note, I wonder how they will view a transsexual who turns up for help. Legally speaking, transsexuals are considered female (though not for the purposes of marriage). I won’t be surprised if they try to convince the transsexual to convert back into becoming male.

  • Hammer

    COOS really have very wicked pastors who spout rubbish and then blame it on the bible. This is not the first time that i heard christians using God’s name in vain and i am sick of hearing it again. I just wonder why these fundamentalists cannot stop blaming others when they themselves are equally disgusting.So does initiating a war with the sole intention to bring another party down just to advance their objective makes one holy and nice?So does discriminating against the minority makes them godly and sinless? So does lying time and time and time makes them angelic and pure?They are guilty as proven for discriminating and lying yet they are still acting like as if the rest of the world are sinners.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/04954915133103758423 Jaunty Jabber

    This is a connecting comment to my earlier one @81)

    Someone has provided the AWARE trainer’s link on another online news center. We read the message and understand that he says the AWARE trainer do not disclose contact number to students.

    BUT…..

    Trainer’s blog is titled with the trainer’s name.
    Trainer’s name is known to all students.
    Trainer’s blog & website contain trainer’s personal e-mail address.
    Blog & websites may contain revolutionary beliefs.

    Some time ago, DPM Wong Kan Seng said, “Singapore is very porous”. Living in this porous land, everybody is porous, things penetrate into us, we absorb things, so do the youngs. This make it even more important to control what is released to the young and its channels.

  • tj

    @105) Jaunty Jabber on April 30th, 2009 4.36 pm

    to me, living in this porous land – and most of the world is porous these days thanks to internet – means all the more parents need to inculcate the right values in their children so as to allow them to make informed choices.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/04954915133103758423 Jaunty Jabber

    Dear TJ #106)

    You are right. Parents formed the root and base for the kids’ learning and growth.

    However, like law and regulations, we have police posts but it doesn’t mean we need not be alert ourselves.

    Parents guide the kids but checks to prevent too much exterior contaminants is still crucial.

  • A Singapore for Singaporeans

    There are two partisan involved here, those who are for Lesbian and homosexuality (or neutral), and those who are against it. No doubt that homosexuality exist in society, however, behind closed doors. To actually have them in the mainstream society is another story…

    Homosexuality is not natural, and is against the law of nature. Man and woman are created (in nature term) to reproduce and to ensure that our species does not extinct. Yes, some might bring up the existence of homosexuality among certain animal species.

    Yet again, we are talking about animal and not human.. (or are we comparing the two?) and what benefit do these animals gain from their homosexuality and do they remain homosexuality throughout their existence? If they do remain at that, then they would have extinct by now. I believe homosexuality existed in animals because of their animal instinct (mechanism) for survival, or lust.

    Homosexuality are common in prisons, regardless, males or females cells. It exist because there are no opposite gender and having sexual intercourse between in-mates (voluntarily or forced to)…. and these can be due to two reasons. First being lust, second maybe having the need to blend in/ included in a group (taken care of) – which could also be known as instinct (survival mechanism).

    Media play a major role in promoting sexuality .. Movies and TVs show promote or suggest messages that homosexuality are fine/ ok. A movie shown on TV showing a guy kissing a guy, or a girl kissing another girl. A young boy or girl watch the show.. Will they be curious? Will they have the impression (growing up) that homosexuality is fine/ ok? Guess what… ever wonder how many gays are in film set/ movies industries? And perhaps, a conspiracy theory at work to spread gayness, homosexuality to be mainstream world. Well, we have seen the examples in recent Miss USA beauty pageants, where a participant got penalized for answering a question that anger gays, or in American Idol 09, with probable winner going to be a gay. Some people might say that it’s a singing competition… but having kids watch that show and having them idolize him… Don’t you think kids watching will be confuse or maybe find that being gay is cool? Hei.. i want to be Clay Ekin.. etc..?

    Hmm.. did i stray out of topic? Anyway, to cut short.. Old Guard vs New Guard = Equality vs Moral. Equality means giving rights to anyone to do what they want (regardless the reason to that decision) or Morality which dictate what is and what’s not.. What’s right and what’s wrong (regardless anyone’s view/ consideration and circumstance to have led to the opposite.)

  • mice is nice

    those who cannot trust MOE, teachers, their children, neighbours and any other people in general, where should they live? i bet those paranoid to that extend cannot even live next to each other…

    trust no one…? not even temselves…?

  • lockeliberal

    Dear Jaunty

    First I I then after discussion we@105…….make up your mind as to whether you speak for yourself or your religious committee whom you have to consult.

    This is the same dishonesty which has prevailed from the start of this sorry saga to the end. Insinuate , make extravagant unsubstantiated accusations which on closer view can only be seen as “MADE” only if one holds a certain viewpoint.

    If there are no fact to support the case, then take the most minor point and exaggerate the doom of the family unit. Aka saying ” Homosexuality” is neutral to ” encouraging female teenagers to have sex with one another.” aka ” Constance Singham was pushing a pro gay agenda because her brother is Gay” to this ” Any form of contact between an AWARE trainer and kids is objectionable because nudge nudge hint hint wink wink……….” You and your kind disgust me to no end.

    Locke

  • HT

    111) Jaunty Jabber on April 30th, 2009 5.28 pm

    But who are you to determine what is the “exterior contaminants”? Who is TSM “if Singaporeans are ignorant, I will teach them” to determine for the rest of Singapore? By what divine right have you and these bunch of slimeballs arrogated to themselves the right to determine what is good for the rest of us?

    I could just as easily say that people who proselytise their religion are contaminants as well, especially if they target children in school.

    But the point is, you and the rest of your ilk like Observ have failed to prove that the old AWARE was anything except neutral, despite hurling basless charges without giving any evidence. The old AWARE was neither pro nor against. They did not presume to tell others what to think. The scurrilous charges that they were “subtlely” trying to influence children also are so laughable and have been derided by the posters here.

    And Jabby, don’t you agree that Josie and Maureen as well as Thio Su Mien (the original AWARE founders were my friends and contemporaries) have LIED to everyone? And that the particular brand of religion which they wear assidiously on their sleeves, prescribes that a woman is subordinate to her husband? And if so, are they fit to be leaders of a civic society that advocates women’s rights?

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/04954915133103758423 Jaunty Jabber

    Maybe we can trust mice who are nice?

    Nope nope & nah nah…..read my comments, we are just suggesting how best we can prevent errant trainer to make use of AWARE to infuse kids with things that ain’t ready to be endorsed officially.

    We allow room for kids to explore. We can’t help it if there are contaminants and kids are curious to try them.

    The main issue is whether we shouls suspect that there is leeways that errant trainer can make use of. And we are asking if MOE’s clarification is really clarifying. On surface and officially they did. Those that fall out of visibility, we doubt.

  • Bananarama

    Sad, real sad for a Church to get involved in covert operation to takeover a Civic Organisation like Aware that reaches out to women of ALL Races and ALL Religions. Sad and SHAMEFUL, actually.

  • tj

    just scrolling through the comments today, i’ve seen homosexuals compared to drug addicts, edison chen, lepers and tuberculosis/ swine flu victims, among other things.

    there are also people making suggestion that such individuals need to be segregated, in order to protect the general public.

    is there no end to the hate? what is it that people are so fearful about?

    if it is about the laws in the bible, then why are people not picketing seafood restaurants??

  • tj

    @ 77) Peace on April 29th, 2009 7.09 pm

    since you asked for it, i can hardly refuse, can i?

    “Maybe you like to know what is happening to the marriage institution as held dearly by ALL cultures and religions . Please share, If there is one culture or religion that has a different view // Marriage is the union of a man and woman to the exclusion of all others.”

    *sigh*
    people really should learn before making these kind of statements.
    the world IS NOT your oyster, geddit? try read a bit more, talk to people a bit more, watch documentaries a bit more. maybe you will then learn a thing or two, or at least let a little sunlight into the vault of your skull.

    (1) “…what anthropologists have learned is that from a global, cross-cultural perspective, “marriage” is in the first place extremely difficult, some would say impossible, to define.”
    (Linda S Stone, Professor of Anthropology at Washington State University)
    http://www.aaanet.org/press/an/0405if-comm4.htm

    (2) The Mormons, Muslims, ancient Chinese/Japanese/Egyptians and many other cultures all practiced polygyny (one husband, several wives)

    “Polygyny was part of Talmudic teaching… Solomon was reputed, according to the Old Testament, to have seven hundred wives and princesses, as well as three hundred concubines (Kings 10.3), and Rehoboam had eighteen wives and three-score concubines…”
    (from Marriage Customs of the World, by George Monger)

    (3) polyandry (one wife, several husbands) can be found in India among the Nayar people and in Tibet and Nepal regions.

    http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/anthropology/tutor/marriage/defining.html
    http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/anthropology/tutor/marriage/polyandry.html

    i can go further and cited examples of same-sex marriages in some traditional societies, but will not do so as i don’t want people to say i’m a proponent for gay marriage. that will just confuse the issue at hand.

    in summary, across time and cultures, there had certainly been examples of forms of marriages apart from ONE MAN, ONE WOMAN model.

    regards,

    tj, of the coconut tree gang

  • A&E (Amused And Entertained)

    What is this I have been reading about tree hugging? You want to have tree sex, is it? Then, next time you want to marry a tree, is it? Do you have a hidden agenda to promote tree sex, Zefly?

  • http://yahoo Peace

    112) tj on April 30th, 2009 10.47

    You are barking up the wrong coconut tree.
    I said, I repeat ” Marriage is union of a MAN and a WOMAN”. and NOT a man and a man or woman and a woman. I am talking about heterogamous and NOT monogamous or polygamous.
    Go hug with zefly and HT

  • anonymous

    Do you support Parents’ appeal to Education Minister?

    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/parents_sex_ed_appeal/index.html

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/04954915133103758423 Jaunty Jabber

    To #89) gemami

    Just to share a bit more about myself, I am not a christian, I am a so-called free-thinker.

    All that I have commented are products of my mind and heart which consist of the following composites:

    - from my real life experiences
    - from some of my encounters
    - from my observations
    - my thoughts
    - some checks
    - my personal beliefs

    I am not expecting a flawless institution, I am questioning on the sincerity and integrity of people who formed the overall image of this institution.

    I am sure everybody does experienced hurts and insults, everybody have people whom you trust, you love. Everybody will want to and try to believe that this world is beautiful. But there are people who are real good in gaining status and trust because of a flair in communicating with people, is eloquence, able to manipulate things and people to believe whatever they say.

    If you were awfully hurt by someone who does things in opposite of all that she has advocated, you will not understand what I mean.

    Thank you for digesting my comments and your questions to me. I may not be able to answer to all of them.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/04954915133103758423 Jaunty Jabber

    Dear all,

    This is to correct a typo error. Haiz…you see, when I am emotional I made typo error.

    Let me remove the “not” in the following sentence:

    “If you were awfully hurt by someone who does things in opposite of all that she has advocated, you will not understand what I mean”.

    I meant to say:

    If you were awfully hurt by someone who does things in opposite of all that she has advocated, you will understand what I mean.

  • JL

    #116 peaceeee,

    not replying to my comments #103 & #105 which are in response to your #85 post?

  • la nausée

    @Peace, with the number of the people you’re telling to go hug a tree, I don’t think even ECP has enough coconut trees! :P

    The argument that we’ve been advancing is that the worldwide ‘consensus’ you seek to ground the institution of marriage on is illusory. And since the concept of marriage you rely on is a very specific one, consisting of a set of very peculiar features, it is relevant that many cultures reject at least one feature in that package, i.e.monogamy. It also bears mentioning that some religions don’t even allude marriage at all — the implication being that marriage is a social/anthropological, rather than moral, phenomenon, and thus liable to change over time, without being either ‘wrong’ or ‘right’.

    @Jaunty Jabber, I sympathize with whatever painful experiences you’re alluding to. At the same time, don’t you agree that it may be a little unfair to judge the conduct of others purely by extrapolating from a series of personal experiences? To attack a person’s “sincerity and integrity”, and not just their competence, is an extremely serious indictment, not to be made lightly. The presumption of innocence should always apply before we conclude that someone’s character is defective.

    Thus far, it seems to me that that presumption of innocence is rebutted only as regards TSM, Josie Lau, etc., whose personal integrity seem have to been fatally compromised by recent events.

  • tj

    @ 113) A&E (Amused And Entertained) on April 30th, 2009 10.47 pm

    you don’t say! in my ‘research’ yesterday i encountered evidence that some tribes in india conducted marriages between a woman and a TREE. now, Peace, you wouldn’t want to be accused of promoting man-tree relationships, would you?

    http://www.metla.fi/iufro/iufro95abs/d6pap59.htm
    http://www.cababstractsplus.org/abstracts/Abstract.aspx?AcNo=19980611254

    @ 119) la nausée on May 1st, 2009 1.14 am

    thank you, la nausee (don’t know how to put the stress over 2nd ‘e’ – btw is that a reference to albert camus novel?), you put it better than i ever could.

    tj, arborophile warrior

  • Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang)

    Today is labor day. My tree is closed for regeneration. Even trees need breaks you know.

  • smallvice585

    Hi Peace #114,

    That’s why union between 2 men or 2 women are called civil partnership, not marriage. We all recognise that the term marriage is strictly applicable to the union between a man and a woman.

  • http://yahoo peace

    120) tj on May 1st, 2009 7.05 am ,
    there was a case in India the family married their young son to a bitch……
    this is really bizarre . this is superstition. it is not normal, right?. Yes , you can a start relationship with anything, even with a coconut tree like Zefly, it depends what kind of relationship. Is it voyeurism? is it perversion?

    122) smallvice585 on May 1st, 2009 10.04 am
    next time, call your ‘wife/ partner or your husband, partner if you think that is the kind of relationship you want. No one stopping you..

  • sllim

    Jaunty Jabber,

    Come on! You silly person, be serious.

    Those don’t even amount to laughable conspiracy theories. They are just… nothing.

    Your line of argument (varieties of “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”) lends itself to EVERYTHING, which makes it no argument at all.

    By your ir-rationale, CSE trainers might have been coaching orgies, bestiality, astral projection, hetero-to-homo, homo-to-hetero, speaking in tongues, prayers, utter submission to scripture…

    “…But there are people who are real good in gaining status and trust because of a flair in communicating with people, is eloquence, able to manipulate things and people to believe whatever they say. If you were awfully hurt by someone who does things in opposite of all that she has advocated.”

    Are you coming out against religion? They take hypocrisy to a new level you know.

  • HT

    Peace #114,

    Uh Uh Peace – be careful, the furious postings you have been making has affected your memory, making it selective -, you said in your post

    #88) Peace on April 30th, 2009 8.58 am :

    “Marriage is a union of a MAN and a WOMAN and NOT a man and a man or woman and a woman or a man with 10 women or a women with 10 men or a man with 10 men or a woman with 10 women etc and all other permutations…”

    So you see, you were speaking about polygamy.

    BTW I happen to agree with your post on the other thread thaty Josie and gang should resign although perhaps we may not have the same reasons.

    And Zefly, and TJ, big hug…Hold on! Gasp! Promoting teletubby culture could be …could be …could be.. promoting an alternative h**** (the dreaded “h” word”) lifestyle as well! Oh no! And the all watchful Feminist Mentor might see us..!

  • JL

    just out of curiousity, will you guys be going to the EGOM tomorrow?

  • observ

    Good to know that MOE has finally publicly stated its stand clearly.

    “In MOE’s sexuality education programme, homosexuality is covered in one lesson in the lower secondary package. The lesson seeks to inform students of the definition of “homosexual”, and that homosexual acts are illegal under Singapore law. It does not promote homosexuality, but follows social norms of mainstream society.”

    So the old AWARE CSE statements such as “Homosexuality is perfectly normal” & “Anal sex can be healthy or neutral” are now not acceptable by both the vast majority of parents and MOE.

    There is a world of difference between informing students of the definition of “homosexual” and telling them that “Homosexuality is perfectly normal”.

  • inferno

    -> JauntyJabber,

    No one is denying the need for checks and balances. I’m sure we here are all in favour of a thorough check of the CSE material to ensure there is no breach in trust, in either direction (i.e. whether pro or against, say, homosexuality). The main issue is that if Darth Thio wants to make unsubstantiated claims against MOE and get away with it, that would be having a cake and eating it.

  • youngparents

    If you want a full picture about the content of the sexual program conducted by the previous AWARE group…check out this site:

    http://tampinescourt.blogspot.com/2009/04/has-moe-lost-its-mind.html

    Join the petition for MOE to conduct an investigation.

  • http://www.ariean.blogspot.com jaded.sg

    @129

    I posted a comment on that post. Not sure if it will get published tho. Have reproduced it on my blog

    Its quite sickening to see parents complaining about MOE and AWARE trying to solve a problem that won’t be there if all parents were doing a perfect job on “inculcating” values

  • cat’s poop

    I think the parents are getting out of hand. The so called offensive materials are written such that the trainers will not coerce any opinions onto the children, but instead let them think themselves. it’s not a trainers’ manual for nothing, ya know. you really think the trainers will repeat word for word in the manual?

    how long do you want your kids to be innocent? until 30? the more something is prohibited, the more the kids will want to find out. don’t know what is reverse psychology?

    no wonder singaporean kids are well known as softies. everything also have their parents/grandparents/maids do for them or teach them. cannot think for themselves. now we know why.

  • la nausée

    I actually don’t have a problem with the parents petitioning MOE. It’s what should have been done all along, rather than the hijack of AWARE over a single aspect of its various programmes. If the parents rather their kids be mollycoddled, if they rather the sexual education teachers bleat “Abstaaaaaain…. Abstaaaaaain…” or “Sex baaad, virginity gooood…”, then it’s up to them to settle the issue with MOE. Let the issue be debated in Parliament; perhaps all future CSE programmes will be conducted by FotF. But leave AWARE (and the rest of civil society) out of this.

  • HT

    Its really funny how these posters sign off as “concerned parent’ or “angry father”. Then the contents are almost identical as well (copied from the same handout probably). But its good for a laugh.

    Come on people. if these parents were really the “concerned” type of parents, they would be following their child’ schoolwork closely and would know what the child is studying. But they apparently did not know anything about the CSE until Darth Thio condescended to “teach” these “ignorant” people (her words, not mine). So are they really so concerned? Can they be believed?

    But I have to admit that these whiners are persistent all right. If synchronised whining were an olympic sport, we wouldn’t need foreign talent to win gold medals at the Olympics.

  • cat’s poop

    “133) HT on May 1st, 2009 8.06 pm
    Come on people. if these parents were really the “concerned” type of parents, they would be following their child’ schoolwork closely and would know what the child is studying. But they apparently did not know anything about the CSE until Darth Thio condescended to “teach” these “ignorant” people (her words, not mine). So are they really so concerned? Can they be believed?”

    that’s what struck me as well. these parents were only AWARE when it hit the headlines? what had they been doing so far? it just seem that these so called concerned parents are not so concerned after all.

  • Lyn

    It is so obvious that the pro-NEW AWARE people are signing off as concerned or angry parents to paint a hurt impression that the old AWARE are promoting homosexuality. The reason?Simple, nobody can be bothered to support josie lau and thio su mien’s slanderous claims made against MOE and old guard so those fundamentalist christians have to doctor those signatures to make it seem real. Not surprising to me because their sick and disgusting pastor have openly declared war on old guard and consolidating votes from their own church members.

    I have to say the biggest losers from all these are not the old guard but all the christians who are not involved in this saga. These innocent christians have been dragged in for nothing all because of a small group of power hungry black sheeps.

  • roger toh

    MOE has shown that thio and josie are lying without remorse. And their pastor is conspiring with them? Or is the pastor the real mastermind?

  • mice is nice

    maybe the church should conduct their very own sex education?? o.O

    let them up their game loh. then MOE will monitor to see if they deviant from social norms. heh…

  • tong lk

    to jaunty jabber,

    Control? Why everything is about control to you? Sounds very like a believer pretending not to be one.

  • tj

    @ 123) peace on May 1st, 2009 11.56 am

    “there was a case in India the family married their young son to a bitch……
    this is really bizarre . this is superstition. it is not normal, right?”

    i haven’t actually read about that one. can provide a link?

    as for the tradition of marrying women to trees, yes, it is part of their beliefs and culture. something to do with reincarnation, iirc.

    Peace, i was hoping very hard you didn’t mean what you said in the quote. to accuse something you don’t understand as ‘superstition’ or ‘not normal’ is a value judgement which is very much coloured by what you believe in.

    if you’re to go to their village, you’ll be the one which is considered ‘not normal’, as everyone there follows a different belief system and you’ll be the odd one out.

    now, in a multireligious, multiethnic society like singapore, it is important not to condemn others based on what they believe in. just because they’re different does not mean they are wrong, you know.

  • JL

    first, MOE stated that they receive no complaint from parents about the CSE program.

    next, the influx of postings with nicks like concerned parent, worried parent, young parent, old parent, not so young not so old parent.

    ay, FM supporters, can be abit more creative not?

  • m

    Even if its normal to haf anal sex, do u wan ur child to learn abt it? virginity is a state of mind, den do u wan ur child to haf sex when she is 14? there’s alot more to it den jux attacking the new excos.. i still think they sud jux announce the 11 schs, den u will c if there is reli concerned parents who will react.. i agree on sex educations for the teens, but definately not wat the CSE contain.. Example: we all noe we cannot smoke in sch, there will b some dare devils still do but the amt will keep to bare minimum, but now although they din say u can smoke in sch, but they tell u smoking is okie… now.. let us imagine….

  • tj

    @ 150) HT on May 1st, 2009 12.20 pm

    yes, time for a big group teletubby hug now!

  • MOE Allowing CSE = Permitting More To Come

    MOE in not outrightly objecting to same gender sexual relationship and sexual acts mentioned in CSE is akin to appeasing and condoning such behaviours, lifestyles and choices. If MOE stays on the side lines and chooses to remain silent in the pray that this will blow over, then we can conclude the current Singapore leadership is double-speaking : talking about respecting mainstream values on the one side and acting differently and diffidently on the other. Singapore will take the cue from MOE’s response. Continuing CSE will be extrapolated to mean individual choices matter and as such, euthanasia, polygamy, abortion, gender selection, organs transaction, energy enhancement, can also be discussed in schools. In the end, we will be a society where individual rights and choices matter, turning us into a replica of the western society. If this is not so, the responsible MOE officials must be taken to task; schools must stop CSE now and the trainers must be blacklisted.

  • mice is nice

    re post #168) MOE Allowing CSE = Permitting More To Come on May 5th, 2009 5.09 pm

    CSE does not cover topics like euthanasia, gender selection, organs transaction & energy enhancement.

    what is energy enhancement anyway?? -.-”

  • Alan S.L. Wong

    There are real concerns with AWARE’s CSE. See my critique of AWARE’s CSE Instructor Guide with verbatim quotes from relevant modules of the Guide.

  • mice is nice

    while i agree there are real concerns with Aware’s CSE Instructor Guide, relevant authorities should be given feedback, channel those feedback to MOE which shoulders the responsibility ensuring no questionable materials are taught in schools, its unbecoming of parents to make far fetched demands to Aware.

    this issue points to a deep rooted problem society is plagued with, when there is a problem, 1 is made to go round & round on a wild goose chase which relevant body is the relevant wan to feedback to.

  • IAmNotGay

    I continue to be amused by the explanations from pro-gay groups.

    Even after the government has stated clearly their position, they still don’t get it.

    Even after the government has slammed AWARE for what they have done and even stated that until AWARE gains the trust of parents again, their program will not be consider, they still don’t get it.

    These militant pro-gay supporters continue to battle it out on the net and yet fail to confront the government when it’s the government that is the strongest critic of their actions. They continue to write in forums and try their confusion strategy.

    This Dana Lam is so lame to continue to harp on the fact that there were no complaints for the last 2 years when they launch their stealth underhanded plan to push a pro-gay agenda as a means to justify that they are right. Look at the bottom line. The government has slammed AWARE CSE, they have further stated that they were unaware of the instructors manual which was not shown to them nor was the government told that they told of the position they will take on homosexuality and anal sex – even when the limits of the program must be centered around the family as a basic unit framework.

    This shows that Dana Lam continues to deny that the CSE is wrong even after all the admonishment by the government that it wrong. This goes to show that she and the whole AWARE will continue to push their pro-gay agenda – perhaps in another sneaky way which the majority and government will not notice. She is not even remorseful about what they have done nor acknowledged their folly. Instead try to mitigate the fiasco using meaningless words like “regrettable” and “they understand”.

    When there is not acknowledgement of guilt, there is no change. This means AWARE will not regain the trust of parents. What a silly action to waste a chance to come clean and rebuilt. AWARE will be a pariah NGO and all straight thinking person will abandon it and become a base of all pro-gay groups. It should change its name to some Pro-Gay name instead – like IAMGAY.

  • A Tan

    Dana & gang, pls withdraw yr endorsement for Damien for NMP again. You damage his image with yr support.

    It was wrong for the OG to say CSE had MoE approval, but not saying that the instructors’ manual had not been approved by MoE.

    Damien, pls disown the support from Dana and “anal se”x friends. They do you no credit.

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