The Online Citizen

V-shaped, U-shaped, L-shaped, deep U, fat U…

May 02
00:55 2009

There is no V-shaped; now the optimistic scenario is a U-shaped recovery, a deep U, a fat U, and if we are lucky, gradually recovering from the later part of this year or early next year. 

But if we are not lucky, it could be an L-shaped problem – economy is still shrinking, after a while it doesn’t shrink so fast, it stops shrinking, but it stays at the bottom a long time before slowly picking up again, no growth or poor growth for several years to come.

PM Lee Hsien Loong

  • lactobacillus

    Now we are talking about fat U or L shaped recovery, can the first-world PM and his team highlight to the people what they will be implementing to help our people and economy during this difficult time.

    The implication of fat U or a L recovery means that a lot of people will be undergoing hardship. What is the govt going to do to relieve the hardship. Retraining does not mean re-employment in a economic contradiction. It is definitely not curing the root of the problem.

    Just like the swiber flu problem, containment approach does not work anymore. We need working vaccine to fight against the flu. In the same light, we need more fresh idea to rejuvenate our economy.

  • Luck Based Economy

    So now we have moved into a new economic phase? Luck Based Economy? Why then do we need still need to retain the ‘top dollar brains’ when their role is no different from the uncles at the coffeeshop deciphering numbers for the next 4D and Toto bet?

  • kenneth

    As I said in my article on TOC , ‘Will this be Singapore’s lost decade?’ Did the PM also read my article?. Let’s hope he also takes on board my suggestions for a paradigm shift in policy. The Reform Party will be giving more details about its policies at the forthcoming Press Conference.

  • samantha_Loy

    yeah yeah yeah…blah blah blah….you’re paid 6 times that of Obama to just reiterate basically what the leading economists in the world has foretold. Can you please spout something more credible and original ?

  • samantha_Loy

    By the way, how can you not see this coming ?? With a multi-million dollars salary you’d better have the super brain of a fortune teller. Otherwise, stop branding yourselves as the creme de la creme and deserving compensation on par with top earners in SG.

    You can pay my daughter just $10 and she can also rattle off text book answers like yours above from any issue of business times.

  • http://www.prayitworks.com-a.googlepages.com/home joehancl

    So what is the govt. doing? Ministers with their ‘fat U’ salaries? I believe they must show they are with the people by taking a PAY CUT? If not the people MUST rise up in the next election. CHI LAI !!! CHI LAI !!!

  • Blindman

    WOw big words , that i almost got lost in reading the paragraph, its funny how our reporters don’t seem to be able to ask questions that the general public would like to know.

    Like so what does all this mean ? Sit and wait for the cows to come home ? What is the govt doing about the recession, all this talk is hot air ……

    There is no value add to improve the current situation, does anyone know if the money we lost in Temasek Holdings could have saved us ??? sorry for the dumb question ……

  • gemami

    By the way, how can you not see this coming ??” : #3) samantha_Loy .

    Silly you! He saw it coming many many years ago. That was why he made sure he paid himself extremely well before it happens. He is the creme de la creme alright! We have been so well creamed!

    Anyway, some food for thought for fellow-Singaporeans.

    Since the doom and gloom is not going to get better, and since the government cannot do anything about it because this will depend solely on the recovery speed of the global economy; why not then, we take the chance and vote in the Opposition, as many as we possibly can, and give them this period to re-skill, up-skill, retrain and regain? Let us SPUR them while they learn on the job, SPUR-JOB. Good idea?

  • pc

    As our economic depends on USA and luck, why not outsource our world class government to USA. So they will do good for USA and will be goog for Singapore.

  • SY

    Please do give the government credit for what they have achieved. I don’t see how any other government could have avoided the situation we are in. No one foresaw the depth of this crisis, not even Obama, or NMC CEOs paid ten times what our ministers get. The economic progress over the last 5 decades is not an accident. It is the result of the sweat of thousands of EDB and other ministry officers and the vision of people like Goh Keng Swee. Of course as we are the most affluent economy is SE Asia, our decline will be the fastest in a downturn, cause we are falling from a greater height. We are now able to fund the stimulus package from pass reserves, without a cent borrow from future generation – how many other countries have that option?

  • Dumboqueen

    Hey guys it is not their fault that the economy is so bad that they cannot do much except to wait for others to recover. It is simply beyond them. The only thing that can save us now is a two-day SPUR training program. There is a fat and deep U inside spUr.

    As for minister’s pay, there is no U or V in their vocabulary. Only a laterally inverted L; _|. Up up and away!

  • Lesser Mortal

    #3 Samantha

    “By the way, how can you not see this coming ?? ”

    PM said “But if we are not lucky, it could be an L-shaped problem”. He already gave a clue why they didnt see it coming. They were not looking at all, how can they see? He was depending on luck. If we are lucky we will be a great nation and if we are not lucky, then its a double L (LL short for something in Hokien).

    Let us Lesser mortals not begrudge the high pays of Ministers, 8 month bonuses of CDC civil servants or even 5 weeks french cooking courses for civil servants. They deserve it because they are lucky. We the citizens of Singapore, are the unlucky ones.

  • gemami

    Totally and fully agree with Lesser Mortal.

    Let us try our luck further. Get the opposition into parliament, who knows, we might just get lucky too! Singapore has been, still is, and will forever be one very Lucky red dot.

    Lee Kuan Yew was very Lucky.
    Goh Chok Tong was also Lucky.
    Lee Hsien Loong is definitely Lucky – with Ho Ching making it doubly Lucky.

    By the law of averages, it is about time the people get Lucky.

  • Looking Forward

    Be patient everyone.

    If we are lucky, we can win big at the casinos when they are up at the IR.

    So just wait a little longer.

  • Law

    #10) SY

    You are echoing with our government, always hyping on its past track record.

    The comments generally are lamblasting that our highly paid ministers could do nothing to revive our economy other than to wait for others to recover.

    Granted, PAP has done well over the past 5 decades, so i agree past leaders like Goh Keng Swee deserved that. However, for this generation, i beg to differ.

    Singapore is getting more expensive to live in. Everywhere, prices are increasing at a rate that is not in line with our salary. My opinion is that the gap between the rich and the poor are wider to a third world country. There is an article on TOC: “Labour Day: Economic growth should benefit all, not just the rich” on this.

    If our current crop of ministers could do nothing other than depend on luck, how are they able to justify their huge salary? (nevertheless they have a supporter like you)

    #9) pc
    Since our economy is always tied up with USA, i agree that out sourcing our goverment to them is an excellent idea.

  • cat’s poop

    if any of you has lived in places like seoul or tokyo, you wouldn’t complain about the high living expenses in singapore. singaporeans get it much better than most other countries.

    how many of us work 14-16 hours a day, 7 days a week, and get only about 1 week off every year? yes, japanese may get a higher pay in japan, but their cost of living is even higher! imagine a 3-5m sq room in tokyo cost about 600-700 sgd, 1 packet of 2 stalks of xiao bai cai 3 sgd, even if their pay is twice as much as a normal office worker in sg, the living expenses is twice as high as well.

    yes, our gahment gets paid much higher than their counterparts worldwide, you can’t blame them for everything that happen in this last 10 years. i don’t agree with some sg policies, bt i don’t think we should discredit the gahment left right and centre.

  • ulikeeatingcat’spoop

    cat’spoop sir/mdm
    we are talking about a country here, if people is unhappy about living in tokyo or seoul, they can always move to a cheaper city or go back and live in xiang1 xia4 as they call it, to cut cost, where the hell can we move to, from jurong to pasir ris or pulau ubin?

    we cant compare an apple with a durian, can we?

  • Dr Frankenstein

    Cat’s poop

    Don’t you know the premise of their high pay is that they have helicopter vision and see beyond the horizon and anticipate problems before they occur. So, if there are problems in sg then who is responsible? Complacent singaporeans ah?

  • David

    In a private sector, the boss would have screamed at PAP, don’t tell me the problem, give me the solution. That is what you are paid to do so, so get working and stop whinning about whether we are lucky or not, it is because we are not so lucky that we paid you millions to work a sound solution to make it lucky and not “tikum, tikum” to see whether this year is lucky or unlucky, do you understand LHL?

  • gemami

    Oops! I think I stepped on some cat poops! Why compare Singapore with Seoul and Tokyo? Anyway that’s not the point. The point is why are we so demanding of this government.

    Because they say they are the best! Six times better than the US president, a hundred times better that the Chinese government, and definitely better than all the governments of the world put together. They have justified this with the obscene renumerations they are lining their pockets with.

    We have the right to demand and we have the right to kick as* if we want to, especially when they now turn around and say there is nothing they can do except to wait for the world to recover and to ride on our luck.

    Even the optimist will puke at this suggestion!

  • lactobacillus

    It is so sad to talk about our reserve, the reserve that had accumulate in the last 50 yrs, are badly burnt in someone speculation. You can imagine the type of program that we can fund in the money that we had lost.

    This is one fact that past glory is no guarantee for future success.
    Imagine your money increase up 10% every yr, but in 1 bad yr, your money shrink by 70%. You are in even worse shape than what you started some 50 yrs ago.

    This is the magic of percentage. It is always counted based on the whole pie.

  • ulikeeatingcat’spoop

    gemani,
    ya loh like that we can also compare our gov with tokyo/seoul’s. or our lives with those living in cheaper regions of korea or japan.

    must be FAIR to our gov mah….

  • X.X!!!

    its a great time for the opposition to come into power. Cause mainly..:

    1. people are upset
    2. desire for change
    3. disappointed with the govt ( on all the recent incidents, lack of accountability, etc. and oh ya, Ho Ching- how to forget that one + many more)

    SO my point being, the opp should use these factors and base it from there + STRATEGIES to advance, in the upcoming GE.

    MY BEST WISHES GOING OUT TO ALL OPP PARTIES! :D

  • Dr Frankenstein

    After all this discussions are over, why don’t we all go to the IRs? If we are lucky, we can make $$$, if we are not so lucky, then LL loh :). We, Singaporeans must learn to read between the lines of what the gahmen is trying to say lah.

  • SZ

    10) SY

    “No one foresaw the depth of this crisis, not even Obama, or NMC CEOs paid ten times what our ministers get. ” None one is a little inaccurate since people like Warren Buffet , and he is a BIG someone , and other economist has already mention something of this magnitude will happen. and investment that the Oracle of Omaha won’t touch with a ten-foot pole, we get people investing in it and suffering paper lost in the magnitude of billions. for your info, they have been hyping about their ability to justify their pay, yet their extraordinary ability does not surpassed Obama etc, who also can’t foresee this, so why are they getting such an extraordinary paycheck? Please, your defense is just so hollow….and furthermore, you are attributing out reserves due to them? Please, wake up, the reserves are contributed over time by the blood and sweat of Singaporeans….not just them….so yes, we may not have to be funded by future generation, but it is funded by pass generation.

    “our decline will be the fastest in a downturn, cause we are falling from a greater height.” Beh….you are wrong…”height and physics” has nothing to do with the speed of falling…sorry for the pun…but part of the reason is due to the export-based model that our gahmen utilized to generate GDP growth…due to that, we experience “growth” that you attribute to the gahmen which is due to the demand factor from export market, however, when the worldwide demand drops, our export also drop leading to a recession, and you seem to have forgotten who was it that depend too much on this volatile model to generate growth and say that they can’t foresee it. come on, who are you trying to smoke?

    so next time, please try to have a solid foundation, if not just a little gust will blow you off…

    16) cat’s poop
    Before you compare us against japan, perhaps you should do some research first,as it is a part of their culture…either due to the distance to travel to work, or their loyalty to the company…not because they have to slave away to pay for stuff…and ain’t it funny, for this type of stuff, you are comparing against the world third largest economy (PPP) typical….so typical…how about comparing it to another economic tiger? oh, and for your info, although Japan cost of living is higher then ours, however the ministers in the world third largest economy is paid lesser then our dear leaders…

  • SZ

    LoL….i don’t think we really need to listen to what the curves represent, since we know, and for those who don’t…they can look it up…either through books or the internet….what the people wants to know is what can still be done

  • Peter Tan

    Dear Cat’s poop

    Are you from PAP?

    The issue is not the high pay per se of the Ministers but rather the very poor performance. This year GDP growth is expected to be minus 6 to 9% and the Ministers continue to take their high baisc salary led by PM Lee’s USD 2.5m +. Next year economy reboiunds let say 5% and they will draw a big GDP bonus.

    For the poor performance of GIC and Temasek (loss of $100 billion) and Mas Selamt’s escape, they should cut all their salaries by 50% and apologise to all Singaporeans.

  • donaltruimph

    [i]14) Looking Forward on May 2nd, 2009 10.15 am Be patient everyone.

    If we are lucky, we can win big at the casinos when they are up at the IR.

    So just wait a little longer.[/i]

    sure man liked you says
    meanwhile my casinos in las vegas is filin for bankruptcy
    not forgettin in macau as well
    IF
    ha ha ha

  • Make opposition win

    Must try our luck with opposition lah, hor.

    If cannot give 100 seats to opposition due to 50% walkovers, at least make them win 50% of the seats at the next election.

    In this way, PAP lose 2 thirds majority and hence cannot suka suka make policy or talk cock. Need to teach PAP a lesson mah, if not they so easy collect their multi million $ salary.

  • SY

    To Law at 15)
    I do not see how any government could have stopped the steep decline in the GDP. Therefore, I do not agree that the performance of the current govt is poor. I see that a range of supply side stimulus measures have been launched, which I believe to the best way out of the crisis. It would be easier for a govt to adopt a range of demand side policies – give out shopping vouchers etc, but these do not work.

    Leading the nation, being responsible for every aspect of the lives of 3-4 million people is a important and difficult job. I worry that if we go on like this, blaming our leaders for every thing bad that happens, demanding resignations for everything that goes wrong, we will ensure that no able person will want to hold public office. This will indeed be a sad day for us. Yes, there is a need for checks and balances, questions raised in Parliament. I am glad we have a good opposition and able NMPs, but I say, let’s be thankful and appreciative too.

  • cat’s poop

    i think u guys did not read carefully what i said. i specifically mentioned that sgeans shouldn’t keep complaining about sg having high cost of living. did i say i support our ministers have the highest salary? did i say i come from the PAP? i also mentioned i do not agree with some of the gahment’s policies. why compare to seoul/tokyo, coz sg always want to be number 1 in everything what!

    please read people’s comments carefully before you want to continue ur gahment bashing. kthxbai.

  • Small Time Businessman

    To: cat’s poop

    “yes, our gahment gets paid much higher than their counterparts worldwide, you can’t blame them for everything that happen in this last 10 years.”

    We do not want to blame our gahment for everything that has happened, but when they take credit for everything in good time (and raise their own pay), then they have to take credit for the shit too

  • SZ

    29) SY
    like what was previously said, you can try as much to lower the price of production and simulate demand for our export supply, however when the biggest market out there doesn’t have any demand for your export, nothing you do will help through supply side stimulus…and in the end, you are still stuck with a warehouse full of unwanted goods….and what happen when companies are in that situation?let me ask you this….my economy is is big trouble, you can offer the stuff cheaply to me, but do you think i will want it when time is bad? gosh…however stimulating domestic consumption at least may help, do not say that it does not work, do you have prove that it doesn’t work? any concrete evidence to prove it? if not, please, don’t give such a comment saying it won’t work…especially with your “since we are high up, we will fall faster theory”

    SY, you are making it seems as though people are trying to blame the gahment whenever they can, but you have failed to take into account that there is karma/cause-and-effect. i bet it didn’t come across to your mind that if our dear leaders have not try to hype their “extraordinary” ability to justify their pay increment, this may not have happen. they have claimed extraordinary abilities yet when this recession happens, they are unable to produce the results expected of extraordinary ability and leave the solution and blames to others, they have invited the criticism on themselves…what was the saying again? if you don’t have such a big head, don’t wear such a big hat, is it? that’s the problem here and you failed to see what some of us are seeing and criticize our rights to our perception.

    30) cat’s poop, calm down…at least now you know you shouldn’t complain against japan etc….since it is your fault for starting it, don’t blame others for flaming you. and you should also see carefully what some of us are trying to put across. if you are comparing cost of living vs japan but you have failed to mention that their standard of living matches the cost…. that’s double standard. when you are comparing their culture of working long hours, to make our life looks “good”, you failed to take into account that it is in the root of their culture, and you either willingly or unwillingly use this to try and create an impression that Singaporeans life are better because the Japanese have to slave away. Try to be more objective and don’t use double standard, if not your words are just hollow.

  • TrueBlood Singaporean

    Dear Singaporean,

    Let not forget mid 2007 ERP, GST increase which cost normal meals to inflate from $2 to $3 dollar and has not returned to original prices when so many ppls got retrenched and without income.

    Is this good PAP policies when average singaporean pay has not increased but living cost increased for past decade!

    Never buy inflated price HDB flat at this time it will fall further!

  • cat’spooplikeeatingcat’spoop

    so who is the one responsible for all those high cost?

  • cat’s poop

    i wasn’t complaining about japan. in fact im staying there now. i did mention their salary is higher compared to sg, but since their standard of living is higher as well, my point is that it is still being offset. and my point was that since they worked so hard, their salary is obviously higher. actually alot of younger japanese do not work THAT long hours compared to the older workers, though still longer than sgeans.

    im just saying that, hey sgeans, we already have a relatively good life, why always complain?

    ok la, but i forgot it’s our hobby. i complain also mah, so i complain here just now about us complaining and kana flamed. -.-ll

  • cat’spooplikeeatingcat’spoop

    To TrueBlood Singaporean and all those who love sg and are not lackeys,
    cash is key now at least for me, other than medical fees for my family, we try not to spend on luxury items or services.

  • cat’s poop

    i wanna add, i find that the reason PAP give for their ministers’ high salary is quite, laughable.

    cheers!

  • TrueBlood Singaporean

    No one competitor with PAP so they call any salary they want and higher than Obama.

    Even in MNC, your boss will ask you to look for 2 supplier not 1 as anti-competition will arises. PAP so believe in Demand and Supply never walk their talk!

  • cat’spooplikeeatingcat’spoop

    They expect competition and competitors AMONG Singaporeans, but when it comes to themselves, that is a taboo and definitely a big NO NO.

    what hypocrites.

    That’s what irks me the most.

  • SZ

    36) cat’s poop

    Somehow most people feel that what we pay for our cost of living is way too much for this current state of living….but it is good to see that someone like you manage to keep his head cool when gotten flame. I believe that we all are entitled to our perception and questioning of one another is constructive, but there will always be some people who just post stuff, repeating what was been said by our dear leaders and criticizing other ideas saying that it won’t work, when they don’t have foundation on the topic.

    anyway, regarding the shaped of the economy, i won’t be surprised if there are other sudden occurrences that will pop out and prolong the recession.

  • SY

    Hi SZ,

    I do not insist I am right. I am just stating my views, which I see to be an alternative. I respect other viewpoints.

    I think that, if indeed, the government had not developed the export economy, we will not have the sharp decline we have now. BUT, neither would we have the level of wealth and GDP at the present moment. I believe It is simply impossible for us to have generated the (about) 150 billion of GDP based only on developing the domestic economy. That is what I mean by the “we fall faster since we started high”

    The economy is a complex thing, I am no expert. I study it a bit, and I hvae my believes, which may be wrong. But I believe in a simple logic, wealth comes from production, not consumption. I think that doling out money almost never works. More money chasing the same goods simply inflate prices. Demand side stimulus can be used sparingly to unclog a choked economy, but the underlying strength of any economy is its ability to produce things which people want. I appreciate that the present government has worked hard to built our ability to produce, and I believe that is the way to go.

    True, there are times when confidence is low and no one is willing to consume much. We have to tide through these with our reserves and wait for a recovery, which must come. Cause people need little encouragement to consume.

    The decline in our economy seems bad only because it has expanded so much in the last decades. But should would we want to have missed out on the this growth just so that we will not have to face the steep decline now?

  • Small Time Businessman

    To: SY

    “The decline in our economy seems bad only because it has expanded so much in the last decades. But should would we want to have missed out on the this growth just so that we will not have to face the steep decline now?”

    What talking you? Are you saying that when the economy was booming in the last few years, only Singapore has benefited? Almost every country has seen economic boom and especially in 2007.

    And of course if there is money to be made, we should make them. However, it is all due to Sg gahment’s credit (which they claim for higher pay)? And when shit happens, we got to depend on luck. What BS?

  • patriot

    To tell us to depend on luck is definitely unbecoming of our leaders. As many had enlightened, our leaders manage the country as well as the citizens, it is akin to senior management in a corporation, can such managements tell their shareholders to depend on luck ? Was there such precedent ?

    Five decades of positive growths; how much of it did/do the citizens get to share ?

    Why is Central Provident Fund becoming heartaches and headaches to citizens ?

    There will always be some who live comfortably due to hardworks or windfalls, but please empathize with the masses who complain because they are been exploited in good and bad times.

    Many of gemamis’ latest posts in TOC are eye openers, very reasonably and rationally put across. Kudos to gemami !

    patriot

  • Peter Tan

    Many governments also did well in their policies, but our press never mention them. Only the bad things were mentioned.

    FYI the home ownership in Taiwan is more than 90%. Hong Kong 80+%.

    Ours I recall is about 90%. But th PAP and the controlled Straits Times never compare these and heir ministers are not paid millions.

    People are angry because now with internet and a linked global economy, they know the press and the government is not telling a lot of things to make themselves always look good.

  • SZ

    42)SY

    Your logic may be a little…mmm…don’t mind me…wrong. Without consumption from both internal and external market, do you think there will be a need for production? if nobody want to consume, why will they want to produce. it is just like “which comes first, chicken or egg”. when our export market has no need for our export, the likely way out is for our own people to consume in order to produce. if both sides don’t consume, why do we produce…it is a cycle and your simple logic may have miss it…what goes around comes around…

    “I think that doling out money almost never works.” perhaps you will like to look at taiwanese stimulus plan…however, of course, i can guess you will be saying that they have natural resources and 20 million population.

    Yes, more money chasing the same goods will cause inflation. Inflation occur when there is only a fix amount of goods for an increasing amount of money my dear SY, but right now, do you think there will be more money coming from external markets for our products? and do you think people will spend every single cent that the gahmen give out? until it will cause inflation? no, they will save up too, and these will contribute into part of the equation (CIGXM).Let me put it this way…if both external market and internal market doesn’t buy anything, it will be impossible to break out of the deadlock, and there is no way our export market will purchase our export due to the level of economy. so how are you going to boost export to stimulate growth? try to think of it….you have a shop, but your customers have no money and isn’t willing to buy…you give a big discount, but they are still having trouble and can’t afford…do you think they will buy even with the discount?

    “We have to tide through these with our reserves and wait for a recovery, which must come” The recovery will come, and yes, we must tide over…however, it will be a while before we see the tide of recovery appear, and during this period, there will be more job loses and people in need….furthermore, with an ongoing tide of negative stimulus, it may be sometime before we have a break.

    “But should would we want to have missed out on the this growth just so that we will not have to face the steep decline now?”

    No my dear SY…you seem to have miss our point…it is precisely this model of growth that leads to the sharp decline now…and if the exact same model is been practiced after this, it will happen yet again when everything rolls out of control. what we want here, is a shift to another state, whereby growth may be slower then the current model, however the impact of future recession will be lesser. Just like what one of our dear friend here say *sorry, i forgot who was it* we are not trying to stop an export model, we are just trying to minimise our dependencies on it. I have always like this phrase SY “The paradoxes of success is that it set the stage for failure.” if you keep depending on your past success formula, you are awaiting for your own failure.

  • die die must say

    WOW this is great for homosexual in Singapore, the aim of turning Singapore into a country of gay and lesbian is getting closer. Soon man can choose to marry man and woman with woman.

  • Dan

    Whatever happened to our “Golden Yrs”, our 1st class government with out of the world salaries? Ultimately it depends on the element of luck to get our economy out of this mess which the elites with their pay should have avoided. That said, we can get any gambler to lead us. It is no use talking about probables, we have paid them to guarantee us a decent economic growth, if they can’t deliver, jolly well get out. That was the implicit deal with S’poreans that should be honoured. Be men of honour then, S’poreans are not so docile anymore.

  • Disgusted Citizen

    We the citizens are paying him and his team of ministers hundreds of millions of dollars a year to base our economy on Lucky or Not Lucky?

    Is he treating our economy like TOTO or 4-D – to be based on Luck?

    Moreover, what he said is just repeating what his father had said some months ago. Where is the originality? Why so fond of repeating what his father has already said? Come on, man. It is time to walk on your own without having crutches!

    Please lead! Not follow!

    If dared to take the world’s top pay, you had better come out with MIRACLES! We expect nothing less!

  • mice is nice

    economy recover does not mean everyone benefit. some do end up worse….

  • Playboy_Rick

    No $hit sherlock…..haha…

    Talk about stating the obvious.

  • Daniel

    When the clowns lose the respect of the citizen and the clowns still remain arrogant and unrepenting then don’t blame the citizen for condemning the clowns every here and then, rational or irrational (after all those clowns choose to be rational and irrational up to their discretion agenda). One don’t go around exploiting and bullying the citizens while been paid by citizen’s money. Do you, as a executive of the company, screw and exploit the investors blatantly and openly in the first place ? If not, why should we citizen accept that from the government ?

  • Daniel

    “To tell us to depend on luck is definitely unbecoming of our leaders.”

    Not unless our LEEders depend heavily on the luck, and so far they are indeed “lucky” to have subservient, obedient and gutless citizens. They think that since luck work for them in the past, it works for everyone. They have been pushing their “luck” too far thinking that since it is LUCK that bring them power and wealth now, it will be LUCK that that their kangaroo regime and Singapore economy will last . We see that the Singapore Flyer is one example where the gahmen trying their luck and endup in bad luck.

  • Fellow

    to lose 400 mil in 5 months is like giving 20 million each month or giving out 750k per day. They tell you to give generously to charity and they spent public money as if they own them. There are no heads chopped?

    GIC non-disclosure rules and sleeping govt officials are cocktail for troubles. If SIN reserves is $500bill as claimed by many foreigner research & bankers, our 41.7% loss would have surpassed $200 bill. not %58bill as said. We have lost almost half of our national reserves /public monies if this is true.

  • aiyoyo

    aiyoyo

    fat U? L shaped problem? OMG

    wah elites got the super scale pay packages, benefits etc..

    what solutions in place? if really go into these scenario, what’s next step?

    expect man on the street to ‘tong’ until economy recover?

    not sure how to survive if economy no growth for years???

    aiyoyo

  • 1c

    SY,

    Don’t try too hard. Save your words for places where you can make a contribution.

    Readers here are too pent up that they have lost their mind on what they really want.

    The lack of personal and political choices have resulted in people, who feel that they lack control over their own desires, to put all the blame on the government, thinking that it is the government who is responsible for their miseries.

    If people can become less reliant on the government, then political freedom comes naturally because people don’t need to vote for PAP anymore.

    But bear in mind that Singapore’s achievement is not easy in the first place, and even today continued progress is not any easier.

    So people really have to ask themselves what they really want…

  • I Can Honestly Say . . .

    My shape to you is this: _|_

  • SZ

    56) 1c

    you are right about one thing, continued progress is not any easier, especially if we depend on the same economic models…

    however 1c, you are very wrong about some stuff, and that’s your own assumption…people who make assume too much like you is trying to make an A.s out of U and Me.

    why do i say that, for some of us, it is not a lack of personal and political choice, we want something to be done to improve our economic model…and for our fellow citizens who are suffering.you can’t always depend on the same old formula…look at how organization that has depend on that has collapse.

    “If people can become less reliant on the government” Please, are you trying to be funny? can you show me prove that Singaporeans has been reliant on the gahman? or has the gahmen been reliant on Singaporeans input for their lucky investment? Singaporeans contribute not through income tax, but through our CPF portforlio and even GST whereby everyone, is paying for it.

    and asking ourselves for what we want, the answer is above. we want the best for SGP, no matter who is the one who can bring about it…

    1c, i think you may have lost your mind too, or maybe it is the eye, since you assume too much, and your argument lacks substantial foundation…however, why do i say that you lost your mind? it is just to show you that one man’s meat is another man’s poison…to you others may seem to have lost their mind, but to others,like wise, you have either lost your mind or your eye…and the best way to avoid this scenario is just keep those insults to yourself….

  • kenneth

    This is the sad fact about a compliant media … where are the hard hitting questions? Has anyone quizzed the government as t whether its stimulus package worked to stem the unemployment rate, boost domestic consumption and confidence???

    Is this really the PM’s words verbatim? If so, his command of the english language is frighteningly unpolished.

  • Law

    Hi

    SY,

    Just my humble opinion.

    Our government takes credit when economy is good to justify a pay increment (mind you, their pay is already sky high). If our business model is such that we depend heavily on the global economy so what is so special and extraordinary capability about the ‘A’ team that were hying here? If it is really so, then why so conveniently pushed the blame to others when we reach a down turn?

    Our model has it’s fair share of criticism during good days. Inflation shoot up. Things are generally getting more expensive. Flats, food, etc. Now that our economy nose-dived, we are facing job uncertainties and retrenchment. To a low or some middle-income families, the scenario is like – good times: i struggled to keep up with the daily expenses, bad times: i am staring at my kids with a retrenchment letter in my hand.

    If our model is going to continue, this cycle is just going to repeat. To a commoner like me, i can only stare at the wealth of my MPs during both good and bad times.

    SZ
    You points are excellent. Really sums up my feeling.

  • aloha

    the pm is honest with his words but he did not remember, he took pay rise of millions to be the best paid team of the world and citizens have very different expectations of what they need or must do for the economy.

    since he said recovery is maybe mixed or bleak, he should also look at the cost of living where his team kept pushing sky e.g. DPSS HDB 5 Room at Ang Mo Kio Peak is asking for $1.5M. so many instances, that the government kept raising cost of living despite poor economy. even taxi drivers are finding so hard to make $50 a day despite fare hikes. and how many of the shops have opted to close since glcs like capitaland etc are not reducing rental. every cost is kept high, something i dont understand.

    sometimes i like to sympathise with his words or feel that he is right but when i saw how his team of people who made millions and blatantly raise cost of living out of reach for average citizen, i dont feel for him and his team anymore.

  • Joe

    Our PM does not seem to have the right composure when the pressure mounts. Even when he was younger.

    Just read an article (The Sunday Times, 3rd May 2009, Page 33) by Lee Wei Ling, there is one paragraph that highlights his priorities in life. It is as follows:

    She told me he was an albino. Hsien Loong was a little disappointed and had told our father the boy would not be able to do national service. I also knew that albinos have poor eyesight. My heart went to Ming Yang and Loong.

    I thought that giving care and love for the kid (at that stage in life) is more important and it should the first thing on their minds. But no, they (father and grandfather) were worried about the albino’s national service eligibility.

    And these are our leaders.

  • SZ

    Thank you Law @ 60).

    And yes, this cycle will repeat itself, over and over again…so what even after we have recovered? environmental disturbances occur again, and the fall will restart.if we don’t try to shift it to a more stable model at the expense of high growth, we are just inviting ourselves to go through the scenario again. prevention is better then curing, and that’s what people like Mr Kenneth, Mr Tan has been trying to advocate…a shift to another model, with lesser dependence *take note, not no dependence* on export. although it will be hard for such a small country to move away from its dependence on such a convenient model

    However, saying all this is easy. but action speaks louder then words and i just wish there is something we can all do.

  • mice is nice

    the middle class in-between the sandwich very big must do something lah, must get creative ways to push some to the bottom. if the middle of the sandwich continues to grow, no good, no good…

    so all those PMETs be thankful if your re-employed, lower pay nevermind, got some money very good liao. next time can earn more, but i cannot guarantee lah (up to bosses de mah).

  • blackfeline

    he should be thankful..shoe throwing is not a sport here! Ya sure…help the management level…several yrs ago…a retrenched friend..in the banking sector…was introduced by them to take care of strayed cats n dogs dept!..and 2 yrs ago… a retrenched friend…also in banking sector.. seeked his MP…the one who will cry at a drop of a pin…for help. And guess what? he asked him to take on a job as a hdb inspector for “broken this and that”…

  • mann

    <>

    do you really think he doesn’t know that expectations rises with pay? and also about the problems that have spun out of control?

    the bottomline to consider is whether you believe that his team is trying their best and it’s difficult to do better.

    (to a certain extend, i believe it is true: people in the civil service are either deadwood or high-flyers wannabe, and its the high-flyers who are expecting pay rises and promotion, and are most likely to leave. and if you believe this is the same everywhere, then you have to seriously consider the possibility that talent is scarce in such small population)

    and if you considering to shift the responsibility to the free market, do you think people are ready to also accept ill-effects the free market brings?

    it’s best that the government become more transparent. it’s for the good for themselves and the people.

  • abc

    #58 SZ

    you are right about one thing, continued progress is not any easier, especially if we depend on the same economic models…

    You have to realise how little domestic consumption can boost GDP in a small population. Around the world, small nations without natural resources heavily depends on exports to grow. So to become less susceptible to cycles in global demand by reducing exports is to reduce growth during good times too.

    be funny? can you show me prove that Singaporeans has been reliant on the gahman? or has the gahmen been reliant on Singaporeans input for their lucky investment? Singaporeans contribute not through income tax, but through our CPF portforlio and even GST whereby everyone, is paying for it.

    Personal income taxes and GST takes up less than 20% of the govt revenue. It is in the revenue report on MOF’s website. This issue aside, why do some people complain that the govt is not doing enough when they are not dependent on the govt?

  • headhuncho

    [i]Don’t try too hard. Save your words for places where you can make a contribution.

    to put all the blame on the government, thinking that it is the government who is responsible for their miseries.

    Readers here are too pent up that they have lost their mind on what they really want

    So people really have to ask themselves what they really want[/i]

    the resignations of the WHOLE pap party for a start?
    what do we the peasants got to lose
    ANYWAY?

  • patriot

    What Jack Neo had said was partially right.

    We have been reminded constantly to be prepared for ‘bad’ time(my word) and since the people have been repeatedly ‘warned’ or ‘pre-informed’ they ‘should not blame’(my words) the Leaders when their repeated forecasts/warnings, strike.

    However, to say that they(leaders) did not provide solution(s) may not be very accurate. The People were told that we maybe lucky, at least there was mention of a solution, if it qualifies as a solution at all. But at least it had been suggested as one possible solution.

    Jack Neo had been too respectful, otherwise i would have expected him to probably suggest that all parliamentarians and superscale civil servants’ remuneration be reduced by 30%. 30% of their pays could be many million SIN Dollars per month which if put into social welfares, would benefit tens , if not hundreds of thousands of Singaporeans.

    As a lowly educated layman, i need others to help enlighten me on why are our essential goods and services and the commercial sectors keep raising the costs of their wares and services. SERIOUSLY, IS THERE SUCH NEEDS TO CONSTANTLY RAISE THEIR PRICES ? IS IT JUSTIFIABLE ? i sincerely hope there would be some responses to my query.

    patriot

  • dumb

    This quote reminds me of the one by our honourable DPM Wong on Mas Selamat

    “Mas Selamat is either in Singapore, or he is not”

    Wow – we need a million dollar paying DPM to spout such thoughtful insights.

  • bot

    SPUR-JOBS to provide up to S$400k in co-funding recruitment, training
    reported by cna
    Companies in Singapore can now receive a grant of up to S$5,000 per worker or up to S$400,000 to co-fund costs incurred in recruitment and training.

    Why no comments on this one?

  • HaiGong

    My children also know that their grandmother is female.

  • BuahTahan

    U, V, L. Who really gives a F? What we need are lower GST/zero GST for essential services, removal of ‘live in Singapore’ fees (TV & radio license, water appliance fee, etc), a stop to PRC blue-collar immigration, priority for citizens in public service jobs, subsidised public services (not cost-plus), lower HDB prices and free healthcare for the elderly.

  • dumb and dumber

    another great prediction – like how our trade and industry officials always give overall trade figures estimate that changes every quarter?

    Macham like actually they cannot forecast, but can only give a figure on hindsight?? When all the dust has settled, they said – 2007 – budget surplus of gazillions after GST raised from 5% to 7% hahaha!

  • Dr Frankenstein

    Dear Bot,

    IMHO, again another hare brained scheme to help companies but not individuals. What is the use of training when there are NO jobs and No income and big bills to pay?

  • ACACIA

    Have a read on the BBC on the need to cut back on an export reliance economy.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8031456.stm

    When have the government listen to the people? We are quite sick and tired of their multi million dollars comments. The day will come when they ask why are we not in office anymore?

  • kerondagan

    Did I hear we are one of the 1st country to slip into recession?

  • SY

    Hi SZ, Law and others who replied my thread,
    Just a quick note that I read your follow up posts. I respect your viewpts. The possibility I am wrong is never far from my mind, but I do have my views.
    The debate over supply side vs demand side stimulus can go on forever, but for a number of reasons, I take the supply side. And I believe it often takes a govt more resolve and courage to stick to the supply side. And in this context I believe the current govt has done well and deserves some credit.
    Hope to discuss again soon.

  • SZ

    78) SY

    Great to see you, and glad to hear that you are sticking to your side…and hope you have manage to unlock some part of the logical mindset, since originally you don’t need consumption to produce, even when there is no export.

    “And I believe it often takes a govt more resolve and courage to stick to the supply side” I am so happy to hear that Dear SY….but you seem to have forgotten something that is very logical…courage and resolve doesn’t mean that it is smart and right…if their courage and resolve leads to no productive result, what is the use? what people want over here is result. Period. we can talk about guts, resolve, determination etc etc, however, if you fail to produce the result, you still fail….

    you never win the silver dear SY, you lost the gold. Charles Darwin says that “It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.” and likewise, it is the truth…no matter how smart, how strong, how much resolve…if you don’t change, you will be extinct sooner or later.

    “the current govt has done well and deserves some credit.” Sorry, credit from the people will only be given after the result has been produced. This is not some banks whereby management produce paper growth and can claim credit and get incredible bonuses…look where that leads to…

    Hope to see you again my dear SY, and btw, do take a look at post 76 and that link (*o*)

  • SZ

    Oh yes, in the end, it is all due to perception. Look at how people can have different view of the aware fiasco…if the situation is vice-versa, their views will change again to meet what they perceive…

  • Daniel

    ‘Have a read on the BBC on the need to cut back on an export reliance economy.”
    This news might just trigger some freaking senile old man to remind us that “there is conspiracy to do us in” again.

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